Mata Hari and Edge of the World

jamesatzephyr wrote:

TwoRazorReign wrote:

The whole playing the card/resolving the card/lingering effects concept is a difficult concept to grasp. It is hard to understand which effects fall under these categories and which don't.

It's really not actually very difficult.

Can you identify an effect on a card which is conditional on the card being in play, and which will therefore stop working if the card leaves play (or moves from that vampire)? Those are the effects for which Mata (or any pseudo-clan / pseudo-sect / pseudo-vampire type ability) doesn't work. Other effects see Mata as the pretend-clan or pretend-sect. And you need to be able to identify those effects anyway, so that you know they go away when the card is burned / stolen / lost etc.

They're usually very easy to spot. The card goes in play (e.g. "Put this card on this Toreador") , and an effect then goes either on "The Toreador with this card" or sometimes "This Toreador".

Yeah, that's not really as simple an explanation as you think it is. Even though "An effect on a card which is conditional on the card being in play, and which will therefore stop working if the card leaves play (or moves from that vampire)" won't work for Mata Hari, she can still play the card, and some effects happen but this effect doesn't. This makes my head hurt.

This is not specific to Mata Hari. Vampires can get cards on them without playing them. There is the built-in action to transfer equipment, there is Heidelberg for retainers, there are all kinds of negative cards that are put on the opponent's vampires,... In general, you just have to wonder: what would happen if Mata ended up with the card somehow without playing it? For all those effects, her special does not work.

Non-existant user wrote:

In general, you just have to wonder: what would happen if Mata ended up with the card somehow without playing it? For all those effects, her special does not work.

Not just burning or moving (though those are helpful to think about too). If another vampire had the card - whatever it is - through entirely legal means, what would happen if that vampire played Clan Impersonation to an inappropriate clan and/or sect? (Similarly, Writ of Acceptance, Frying Pan, Mozambique Allure, Derange etc.)

Permanent effects based on the card being in play will cease for the legal target who, some time later, stops being "This Gangrel" or "This Sabbat vampire" etc. And they'll resume if you switch back to the legal sect somehow e.g. equipment burns, moving a Derange etc.