Blessed Resilience
29 Dec 2015 11:23 #74830
by jamesatzephyr
If it didn't mean that, it wouldn't mean much of anything at all. This could end up meaning you'd also be able to target cards that had been burned from the crypt or uncontrolled region. e.g. Yong-Sun , Might of the Camarilla .
Note that the "from play" phrasing is used on several other cards, notably Compel the Spirit which used to be a favourite for players trying to do mind-bending things - though that more often provoked questions about what "since your last turn" meant.
Search engine fodder: Blessed Resilience, Compel the Spirit, Pressing Flesh, Ghost-Eater, Resurrection.
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Blessed Resilience
So, "was burned from play" means "was burned while in play?"
If it didn't mean that, it wouldn't mean much of anything at all. This could end up meaning you'd also be able to target cards that had been burned from the crypt or uncontrolled region. e.g. Yong-Sun , Might of the Camarilla .
Note that the "from play" phrasing is used on several other cards, notably Compel the Spirit which used to be a favourite for players trying to do mind-bending things - though that more often provoked questions about what "since your last turn" meant.
Search engine fodder: Blessed Resilience, Compel the Spirit, Pressing Flesh, Ghost-Eater, Resurrection.
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30 Dec 2015 05:49 #74835
by TwoRazorReign
"Was burned from play" is ambiguous and led to a rules question. "Was burned while in play" seems like clearer wording.
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Blessed Resilience
So, "was burned from play" means "was burned while in play?"
If it didn't mean that, it wouldn't mean much of anything at all. This could end up meaning you'd also be able to target cards that had been burned from the crypt or uncontrolled region. e.g. Yong-Sun , Might of the Camarilla .
Note that the "from play" phrasing is used on several other cards, notably Compel the Spirit which used to be a favourite for players trying to do mind-bending things - though that more often provoked questions about what "since your last turn" meant.
Search engine fodder: Blessed Resilience, Compel the Spirit, Pressing Flesh, Ghost-Eater, Resurrection.
"Was burned from play" is ambiguous and led to a rules question. "Was burned while in play" seems like clearer wording.
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30 Dec 2015 07:36 #74836
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Blessed Resilience
I don't think so. What else could it mean?"Was burned from play" is ambiguous
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31 Mar 2016 20:17 #76157
by TwoRazorReign
I'm not sure, and neither was the original poster. I'm still not 100% clear on what "burned from play" means. I think it means "was burned while in the ready or torpor region." The problem is "in play" is not defined in the rulebook, and "out of play" is only mentioned in passing when describing contested cards or the research area. There is no "in play" or "out of play" regions, just "ready," "torpor," and "uncontrolled". So, "burned from play" is not precise enough language, and this is what causes ambiguity.
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Blessed Resilience
I don't think so. What else could it mean?"Was burned from play" is ambiguous
I'm not sure, and neither was the original poster. I'm still not 100% clear on what "burned from play" means. I think it means "was burned while in the ready or torpor region." The problem is "in play" is not defined in the rulebook, and "out of play" is only mentioned in passing when describing contested cards or the research area. There is no "in play" or "out of play" regions, just "ready," "torpor," and "uncontrolled". So, "burned from play" is not precise enough language, and this is what causes ambiguity.
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31 Mar 2016 21:00 - 31 Mar 2016 21:01 #76160
by jamesatzephyr
1.6.1.4 explains what "in play" means:
If a card is controlled (which includes the torpor and incapacitated regions, as well as the ready region, for minions), it's in play.
"In play" is also described throughout the rulebook. It's also described with reference to playing cards of various sorts (and who retains control of them when they're in play), using actions from cards in play, the no-repeat-actions element of using actions from cards in play, calling political actions using cards in play, using cards in play to cast votes (e.g. Ventrue HQ), using some weapons and other permanent maneuvers to maneuver, how the Scarce penalty works, how Sterility works, how 'unseen' crypt card mechanics work with Imbued cards in the crypt...
The term "in play" is also used on so many cards it hurts - lots of cards are put in play.
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Blessed Resilience
The problem is "in play" is not defined in the rulebook, and "out of play" is only mentioned in passing when describing contested cards or the research area.
1.6.1.4 explains what "in play" means:
Targets. If a card is played on another card, or selects or chooses or otherwise targets another card, the target card must be in play (i.e., controlled).
If a card is controlled (which includes the torpor and incapacitated regions, as well as the ready region, for minions), it's in play.
"In play" is also described throughout the rulebook. It's also described with reference to playing cards of various sorts (and who retains control of them when they're in play), using actions from cards in play, the no-repeat-actions element of using actions from cards in play, calling political actions using cards in play, using cards in play to cast votes (e.g. Ventrue HQ), using some weapons and other permanent maneuvers to maneuver, how the Scarce penalty works, how Sterility works, how 'unseen' crypt card mechanics work with Imbued cards in the crypt...
The term "in play" is also used on so many cards it hurts - lots of cards are put in play.
Last edit: 31 Mar 2016 21:01 by jamesatzephyr.
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31 Mar 2016 21:04 - 31 Mar 2016 21:05 #76161
by Ankha
Then each card, depending on its type:
"Convictions are put in play during the untap phase"
"event cards are put into play during the discard phase to ..."
"Minion cards are cards that your vampires and allies (collectively referred to as "minions") play. Unless the card states otherwise, a minion card is burned after a minion plays it."
" Equipment and retainer cards are played on the minion playing them (the acting minion), while allies are put into play and remain independent from the acting minion. Equipment and retainers are burned when the minion they are played on is burned."
Then there are all the cards that say "put this card into play".
So a card is "burned from play" when it was put into play in the first place, then burned later on.
Replied by Ankha on topic Blessed Resilience
Really? There's the general definition:The problem is "in play" is not defined in the rulebook
Playing Cards. There are four main types of library cards: convictions, master cards, minion cards and event cards. Convictions are put in play during the untap phase (see details in the Imbued Rules appendix); master cards are played by Methuselahs; minion cards are played by the minions (vampires and allies) the Methuselahs control; event cards are put into play during the discard phase to represent events that affects the World of Darkness as a whole (see section 8 ). Master cards have no icon at the top of the attribute bar while the other cards have an icon there that indicates what type of card it is. A card is played by placing it face up in the playing area or by showing it to the other players and placing it face up in the ash heap. The player completely declares the effect of the card when it is played.
2.3. Play Area
The area in front of each player is divided into two regions: the uncontrolled region, which will start with four uncontrolled minions dealt from the crypt, and the controlled region, which is empty at the start of the game. The controlled region is further divided into two areas: the ready region and the torpor region. Torpor is a special area for wounded vampires (see Torpor, sec. 6.5). As the game progresses, you will gain control of some of your minions, moving them to the ready region, face up (see Influence Phase, sec. 7).
Then each card, depending on its type:
"Convictions are put in play during the untap phase"
"event cards are put into play during the discard phase to ..."
"Minion cards are cards that your vampires and allies (collectively referred to as "minions") play. Unless the card states otherwise, a minion card is burned after a minion plays it."
" Equipment and retainer cards are played on the minion playing them (the acting minion), while allies are put into play and remain independent from the acting minion. Equipment and retainers are burned when the minion they are played on is burned."
Then there are all the cards that say "put this card into play".
So a card is "burned from play" when it was put into play in the first place, then burned later on.
It can also be controlled but not ready (an ally that has been recruited).I think it means "was burned while in the ready or torpor region."
Last edit: 31 Mar 2016 21:05 by Ankha.
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