file Keystone Kine and Imbued

12 Mar 2018 21:25 #85695 by Kraus
Kindred Segregation does not burn Imbued by ruling. I can't find the ruling at the moment, but I'm 99% sure that's the case.

Is that because allies without pool cost (this ruling can be found from VEKN rulings) are not accounted to the effect, or because Imbued are considered 0 cost?

How does this interact with Keystone Kine?


Name: Keystone Kine
[TR:C]
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Celerity/Necromancy/Obfuscate
Requires an anarch.
[cel] and/or [nec] and/or [obf] (D) Bleed. If using [cel], he or she gains 1 blood. If using [nec], the bleed is at +1 bleed. If using [obf] and this action is successful, you may burn an ally controlled by your prey whose cost is not greater than the bleed amount.
Artist: Peter Bergting


Does Keystone Kine burn Imbued or doesn't it? I'm guessing it doesn't (for fairness), but still gotta ask.

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12 Mar 2018 21:39 - 12 Mar 2018 21:40 #85696 by jamesatzephyr

Kindred Segregation does not burn Imbued by ruling. I can't find the ruling at the moment, but I'm 99% sure that's the case.


You're wrong. Kindred Segregation burns Imbued, because card text says: "Successful referendum means that all allies are burned." Imbued are allies. The controller can then go to pay their pool cost to recruit to keep them, if they want to. "Any Methuselah can keep an ally or allies he or she controls by repaying their pool cost to recruit." Imbued are not recruited, so their pool cost to recruit is zero.

How does this interact with Keystone Kine?


"Pool cost to recruit" and "cost" are different things. Imbued have a cost, which is also their starting life. See rule 1 on www.vekn.net/card-lists/133-nights-of-reckoning

[cel] and/or [nec] and/or [obf] (D) Bleed. If using [cel], he or she gains 1 blood. If using [nec], the bleed is at +1 bleed. If using [obf] and this action is successful, you may burn an ally controlled by your prey whose cost is not greater than the bleed amount.

Does Keystone Kine burn Imbued or doesn't it?


If used at [obf] and the bleed amount is more than the Imbued's cost, yes.
Last edit: 12 Mar 2018 21:40 by jamesatzephyr.
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13 Mar 2018 18:28 #85719 by Blooded Sand
Yup, imbued are not bullshit munchkins abusing rulings. Totally non contradictory and not counter intuitive. Imbued are awesome...
/s

:assa: :flight: :QUI: :OBF: :POT: :FOR: :TEM: :DOM:

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13 Mar 2018 22:17 #85725 by jamesatzephyr

Yup, imbued are not bullshit munchkins abusing rulings. Totally non contradictory and not counter intuitive.


What's counter-intuitive?

Some cards have costs. For example, Vial of Garou Blood has a pool cost. Society Hunting Ground has a pool cost. Ghoul Retainer has a pool cost. None of these cards have a cost to recruit because they are not recruited.

Shambling Hordes has a cost - 3 blood. They are recruited. But the pool cost to recruit is zero, because its pool cost is zero. For Arms Dealer, which costs neither blood nor pool, the pool cost to recruit is zero.

Imbued have a cost. But they are not recruited. So their pool cost to recruit is zero.

Kindred Segregation specifically cares about the pool cost to recruit, and has since long before Nights of Reckoning. So for any card that doesn't have a pool cost, it's zero. For any card that isn't recruited, it's zero.

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13 Mar 2018 23:16 #85730 by Bloodartist

What's counter-intuitive?


How about that Kindred segregation is supposed to hurt players playing allies, yet imbued are allies and don't care about it.

Its not a question of rules interpretation, but going against the spirit behind the design of a card. Imbued once again dodge strategies.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



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14 Mar 2018 00:19 - 14 Mar 2018 00:21 #85732 by narpassword

What's counter-intuitive?


How about that Kindred segregation is supposed to hurt players playing allies, yet imbued are allies and don't care about it.

Its not a question of rules interpretation, but going against the spirit behind the design of a card. Imbued once again dodge strategies.


You're begging the question by asserting the card is supposed to do X, then saying Y isnt affected by X therefore its bad.

It sounds like the purpose of Kindred segregation is to hurt players recruiting allies
Last edit: 14 Mar 2018 00:21 by narpassword.

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