file Retainers inflicting damage =/= Environmental?

04 Jun 2018 18:33 #87914 by drnlmza

Except, the same card text existed at the time the ruling was made. See Murder of Crows, V:TES edition: vtes.pl/card/Vampire-the-Eternal-Struggle/Murder-of-Crows/39363

You are, of course, entitled to make any ruling you want. If the justification is based on changes introduced by card text, though, it would help if that were true, rather than not true.

Except, the same card text existed at the time the ruling was made. See Murder of Crows, V:TES edition: vtes.pl/card/Vampire-the-Eternal-Struggle/Murder-of-Crows/39363


There are other cards that reference damage from retainers - for example: Eyes of Blade or Carolina Vález

:aus: :cel: Strike: dodge, and this vampire may prevent 1 damage from a retainer.
:AUS: :CEL: Only usable before range is determined. This round, this vampire cannot strike, and strikes and damage from retainers have no effect on this vampire and any non-retainer cards on him or her.

Carolina is immune to damage from allies and retainers.


Clarifying exactly which effects apply for these cases seems sensible.

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04 Jun 2018 20:26 #87918 by jamesatzephyr

There are other cards that reference damage from retainers - for example: Eyes of Blade or Carolina Vález
...
Clarifying exactly which effects apply for these cases seems sensible.


Environmental damage generated by a retainer card could easily be distinguished from environmental damage generated by a combat card (Carrion Crows), a master card (Spawning Pool), while still both being environmental.

As I say, Ankha is entitled to make any ruling he wants. However, I would prefer rulings were made from a position of understanding what the ruling actually achieved, rather than knee-jerk re-writing of card text based on facts which aren't true.

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05 Jun 2018 06:11 - 05 Jun 2018 06:13 #87936 by Ankha

There are other cards that reference damage from retainers - for example: Eyes of Blade or Carolina Vález
...
Clarifying exactly which effects apply for these cases seems sensible.


Environmental damage generated by a retainer card could easily be distinguished from environmental damage generated by a combat card (Carrion Crows), a master card (Spawning Pool), while still both being environmental.

They could be distinguished, but using the same word for two different things is not what I am aiming at. I find it clearer to distinguish explicitly damage that have no source ("environmental") from damage that come from a source, including a retainer.
That's why all damage-dealing retainers (such as Wolf Companion "When the minion with this retainer is in combat, the opposing minion takes 1 damage...") has been changed to indicate the damage come from the retainer explicitely.

As I say, Ankha is entitled to make any ruling he wants. However, I would prefer rulings were made from a position of understanding what the ruling actually achieved, rather than knee-jerk re-writing of card text based on facts which aren't true.

There will be "disruptive" changes at some point, for the better. In that case, it still works how it used to work.

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Last edit: 05 Jun 2018 06:13 by Ankha.

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27 Nov 2021 08:43 - 27 Nov 2021 08:43 #104017 by Ankha

1/ This has changed (implicitely through card text). The damage inflicted by Vengeful Spirit is inflicted by the retainer: this means that a vampire who is immune to damage dealt by wraiths, or retainers, would take no damage from the Vengeful Spirit. (Wolf Companion will be changed accordingly).
2/ Damage from minions hasn't changed.
3/ Environmental damage is now reserved to effects that have no specific source (Carrion Crows).

I've edited the General Ruling section.

REVERSAL: 1/ is still true, but considered environmental (as before): it's environmental damage with a non-minion source
3/ is not true anymore: "Environmental" means "not inflicted by a minion" (as before)

Reasons: www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79506-clarifying-environmental-damage#104016

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Last edit: 27 Nov 2021 08:43 by Ankha.

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