file New Blood is overpowered?

17 Jan 2019 05:10 #92960 by mjvtes521
I feel kind of silly asking this, but I can't quite figure out the reasoning against it: A player on Lackey brings up New Blood and says "inner circle". Since nothing in the rulebook says that a title has to actually be printed on the card to grant the votes, I had to puzzle over the reasoning for why New Blood isn't suddenly the cheapest Inner Circle member ever.

Relevant text from Section 6.3.3 of the rulebook says, "Titled Vampires: For each ready titled vampire a Methuselah controls, she gains extra votes. The number of votes gained depends on the title. A Methuselah gains: 1 vote for each ready primogen or bishop,....4 votes for each ready Inner Circle member or regent."

However, Section 10.1 says, "Only Camarilla vampires can hold the Camarilla titles primogen, prince, justicar and Inner Circle member. Additionally, each clan’s justicar and Inner Circle titles are unique (see Contested Titles, sec. 4.2) and can only be held by vampires of that clan." Only a member of one of the Camarilla clans can have that clan's unique Inner Circle title. So even if New Blood had become Camarilla (Out of the Frying Pan), he can't hold the unique Inner Circle title, because there is none for the Blood Brothers clan. But Section 10 also says, "If a vampire changes clans (by means of a
Clan Impersonation card, for example) to a clan that belongs to a different sect, he changes sects as well."

So then if he plays Clan Impersonation to become a Malkavian, for instance, then I think it would work. Bring in New Blood, say Inner Circle, Clan Impersonate to Malkavian, become a 2 cap Malkavian Inner circle member with 4 votes that work.

I know this is stupid, btw, but I’m just wondering if it actually works, and if so, if it should be ruled against to avoid the potential to be abused in some broken way that I haven't thought of. I can think of a few people that would try, for sure. The question also came up of whether Mary Anne Blaire would give this overpowered New Blood -2 bleed. Not sure on that one either. Thanks.

Here are card texts:

New Blood
Clan: Blood Brother
Group: ANY
Capacity: 2
Discipline: san
Sabbat: When New Blood enters play during your influence phase, choose a circle and draw 1 card from your crypt. New Blood belongs to the chosen circle. Sterile.

Mary Anne Blaire
Clan: Ventrue
Group: 5
Capacity: 10
Discipline: ani pot AUS DOM FOR PRE
Camarilla Ventrue Justicar: Mary Anne can add 2 blood to a vampire in your uncontrolled region as a +1 stealth action. Inner Circle members get -2 bleed while she is ready.

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17 Jan 2019 05:47 #92962 by brandonsantacruz
It's funny as a wording issue, but New Blood doesn't get a title, he's part of a circle.

From the rulebook:
Circle: Each Blood Brother is identified with a particular circle. A vampire without a circle designation is his own circle.

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

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17 Jan 2019 06:46 #92963 by Boris The Blade

Only a member of one of the Camarilla clans can have that clan's unique Inner Circle title.

What are you quoting from? That line is not on the web rulebook. It seems that the notion of default sect has been removed.
www.vekn.net/rulebook
www.vekn.net/rulebook/10-vampire-sects

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17 Jan 2019 08:22 - 17 Jan 2019 08:24 #92965 by Bloodartist

It's funny as a wording issue, but New Blood doesn't get a title, he's part of a circle.

From the rulebook:
Circle: Each Blood Brother is identified with a particular circle. A vampire without a circle designation is his own circle.


Indeed. However, if he is member of inner circle, does Mary Anne give him -2 bleed? That was my original question in FB. I personally didn't dream of him getting titles or +bleeds out of nowhere.. That was Mjvtes.

This literally happened yesterday in our live local game. Person brought up new blood saying "inner circle". The joke got serious when another player brought up Mary Anne. I'd like to get an official answer on this, especially from our judges more fond of grammar..

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 17 Jan 2019 08:24 by Bloodartist.

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17 Jan 2019 08:58 #92966 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic New Blood is overpowered?

Only a member of one of the Camarilla clans can have that clan's unique Inner Circle title.

What are you quoting from? That line is not on the web rulebook. It seems that the notion of default sect has been removed.
www.vekn.net/rulebook
www.vekn.net/rulebook/10-vampire-sects

The relevant part of the rulebook is:

Only Camarilla vampires can hold the Camarilla titles primogen, prince, justicar and Inner Circle member. Additionally, each clan's justicar and Inner Circle titles are unique (see Contested Titles, sec. 4.2) and can only be held by vampires of that clan.

www.vekn.net/rulebook/10-vampire-sects

However, if he is member of inner circle, does Mary Anne give him -2 bleed?

No. The title "Inner Circle" and the trait "inner circle" are two different things, and Mary Anne refers to the title (identified by the uppercases).

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