file Play to win

19 Aug 2019 08:21 - 19 Aug 2019 08:22 #96341 by Tadori
Play to win was created by Tadori
I will start my question with an explanation, I heard similar thing happened on Paris EC.I was not there so it's hard for me to say what the situation real was. Because of this I will create a hypothetical situation for this question.

There are 4 player at the table A,B,C,D (in seating order). Player B is about to eliminate player A but Player D decided to oust himself by transferring all of his pull on uncontrol vampire. This ultimetly denied player B from geting a VP.

I would like to know in with circumstances behavior of player D is legal conserving Tournament Rules 4.8. Play to Win.
Last edit: 19 Aug 2019 08:22 by Tadori.

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19 Aug 2019 09:33 #96342 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic Play to win
Well, you can't really expect different behaviour from french players, as in this case.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
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19 Aug 2019 10:21 - 19 Aug 2019 10:25 #96343 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Play to win
To be honest I don't care about the player. I care about a judge that allowed such behavior. Thats why im asking. Because if there are no such circumstances in which this action could be legal then he is at fault, by not blocking it.
Last edit: 19 Aug 2019 10:25 by Tadori.

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19 Aug 2019 12:20 - 19 Aug 2019 12:21 #96351 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Play to win
The matter has already been heavily discussed for more than 10 years. Here's one of the occurence:

groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/UNgikrN6FR8/h1g_VQYuFXoJ

> Q 3: Is self ousting illegal when a player can not reasonably
> get any more victory points or a GW?
No.

4.8. Play to Win
One aspect of sportsmanlike conduct is that players must not play toward goals that conflict with the goal of the game as stated in the V:TES rulebook (e.g., attacking certain players on the basis of their V:EKN ratings or overall tournament standing, etc.). For tournaments, playing to win means playing to get a Game Win if it is reasonably possible, and when a Game Win is not reasonably possible, then playing to get as many Victory Points as possible.


Basically, if 0 VP is the maximum number of VP you can get, you are free to get your 0 VP anyway you want, including by self-ousting.

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Last edit: 19 Aug 2019 12:21 by Ankha.
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19 Aug 2019 12:20 #96352 by cordovader
Replied by cordovader on topic Play to win

Well, you can't really expect different behaviour from french players, as in this case.


This is perfectly legal if player D’s maximum possible score during the game would have been 0 (eg: no ready vampires).

And if he has no ready vampires due to player B’s rushes it’s pretty understandable (since he was denied the play to win).

I am of course talking hypothetically also. :)
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19 Aug 2019 13:39 - 19 Aug 2019 13:51 #96356 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Play to win

The matter has already been heavily discussed for more than 10 years. Here's one of the occurence:

groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/UNgikrN6FR8/h1g_VQYuFXoJ

> Q 3: Is self ousting illegal when a player can not reasonably
> get any more victory points or a GW?
No.

4.8. Play to Win
One aspect of sportsmanlike conduct is that players must not play toward goals that conflict with the goal of the game as stated in the V:TES rulebook (e.g., attacking certain players on the basis of their V:EKN ratings or overall tournament standing, etc.). For tournaments, playing to win means playing to get a Game Win if it is reasonably possible, and when a Game Win is not reasonably possible, then playing to get as many Victory Points as possible.


Basically, if 0 VP is the maximum number of VP you can get, you are free to get your 0 VP anyway you want, including by self-ousting.


I edited my post because what cordovader wrote is convincing.

So the only question remains is what is wrote at the beginning of point 4.8 Is it "sportsmanlike" to on purpose deny other player VPs by self-ousting
Last edit: 19 Aug 2019 13:51 by Tadori.

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