file Relentless Reaper vs Blissful Agony and scheduled combat rulings ambiguity

20 Dec 2019 13:40 #98318 by Kraus

  • A combat cannot be queued if there is already a combat queued.
  • Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a new combat is started.
  • Telepathic Tracking and Relentless Reaper replaces the end of a combat by a new round, so they don't count as "queuing up a new combat": they can be played if a Siren's Lure has queued a combat.
  • Psyche! is played when the combat is about to end to queue a new combat. It cannot be played if another combat is already queued (eg., Siren's Lure).
  • Telepathic Tracking and Relentless Reaper are played before Psyche! could be played, and since the combat is no longer ending, Psyche! cannot be played.

This is a very useful list, which I would appreciate was included as is in the General Rulings tab on VEKN.

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21 Dec 2019 17:10 - 21 Dec 2019 17:21 #98320 by beslin igor
Ankha
1) you say in this topic: Bonus: Can you play a Relentless Reaper after Psyche?
I would say no, but Pascal's post disagrees. Not yet an official ruling. Eager to find out the truth, and hopefully at least get a glimpse to the reasoning and the rulings that support it.

You cannot, it's too late.

but there in me topic from 2018 : www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/76990-correct-order-impulse-for-combat-cards-after-combat?start=0

beslin igor wrote: how resolve Psyche vs Telepathic Tracking if posible play these cards in same window with diferent vampires(i mean A play one R other card)

You can't play Psyche! after a Telepathic Tracking has been played, since the combat is no longer ending.
You can play Telepathic Tracking after Psyche! has been played. Psyche! queues a new combat, but TT makes the first combat continue. So the first combat will continue, and the extra combat created by Psyche! will never take place (it is "disrupted" by TT).

(I beleive to TT and RR are totaly same cards and need to works in same way.)

2) you say here: Relentless Reaper, Telepathic Tracking and Psyche! interrupts the effect of Blissful Agony.

But I will copy from card rulings: Psyche!:
Superior cannot be played if there is already a combat queued (with, for example, Blissful Agony) [RTR 20020501]
(If that no more corect answer maybe need to be changed there too because can confuse people!)
Last edit: 21 Dec 2019 17:21 by beslin igor.

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21 Dec 2019 17:18 #98321 by beslin igor
And Siren's Lure vs Psyche!

Siren's Lure say once action resolve,and if I understand good action resolve after multiple combat(example replace Bum Rush you can replace after multiple combat,after Freak Drive),so how cannot play Psyche before resolution Siren's Lure?

Name: Siren's Lure
[BL:R1, LoB:R]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Melpominee/Celerity
[cel] This vampire burns 2 blood to get +1 stealth.
[mel] Only usable by an unlocked ready vampire other than the acting minion when a minion attempts to block. That minion cannot block this action. Lock this vampire and that minion. Once the action resolves, this vampire enters combat with that minion.
[MEL] As [mel] above, but do not lock this modifying vampire.

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21 Dec 2019 20:36 #98324 by Ankha

Ankha
1) you say in this topic: Bonus: Can you play a Relentless Reaper after Psyche?
I would say no, but Pascal's post disagrees. Not yet an official ruling. Eager to find out the truth, and hopefully at least get a glimpse to the reasoning and the rulings that support it.

You cannot, it's too late.

but there in me topic from 2018 : www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/76990-correct-order-impulse-for-combat-cards-after-combat?start=0

beslin igor wrote: how resolve Psyche vs Telepathic Tracking if posible play these cards in same window with diferent vampires(i mean A play one R other card)

You can't play Psyche! after a Telepathic Tracking has been played, since the combat is no longer ending.
You can play Telepathic Tracking after Psyche! has been played. Psyche! queues a new combat, but TT makes the first combat continue. So the first combat will continue, and the extra combat created by Psyche! will never take place (it is "disrupted" by TT).

The last sentence is a mistake, good catch. I fixed it in the post you quote.
way.)

2) you say here: Relentless Reaper, Telepathic Tracking and Psyche! interrupts the effect of Blissful Agony.

But I will copy from card rulings: Psyche!:
Superior cannot be played if there is already a combat queued (with, for example, Blissful Agony) [RTR 20020501]
(If that no more corect answer maybe need to be changed there too because can confuse people!)

Yes, I made another mistake: you cannot play Psyche! to interrupt BA.
The reason is that Psyche! queues a combat, and BA has already queued a combat. So you cannot play Psyche! in the first place (you still can play TT and RR, and BA's combat would be lost).

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22 Dec 2019 09:45 #98327 by beslin igor
Ankha can you explain this scenario,you maybe missed this me comment:

And Siren's Lure vs Psyche!

Siren's Lure say once action resolve,and if I understand good action resolve after multiple combat(example replace Bum Rush you can replace after multiple combat,after Freak Drive),so how cannot play Psyche before resolution Siren's Lure?

Name: Siren's Lure
[BL:R1, LoB:R]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Melpominee/Celerity
[cel] This vampire burns 2 blood to get +1 stealth.
[mel] Only usable by an unlocked ready vampire other than the acting minion when a minion attempts to block. That minion cannot block this action. Lock this vampire and that minion. Once the action resolves, this vampire enters combat with that minion.
[MEL] As [mel] above, but do not lock this modifying vampire.

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23 Dec 2019 12:30 #98339 by PetriWessman

  • A combat cannot be queued if there is already a combat queued.
  • Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a new combat is started.
  • Telepathic Tracking and Relentless Reaper replaces the end of a combat by a new round, so they don't count as "queuing up a new combat": they can be played if a Siren's Lure has queued a combat.
  • Psyche! is played when the combat is about to end to queue a new combat. It cannot be played if another combat is already queued (eg., Siren's Lure, Blissful Agony).
  • Telepathic Tracking and Relentless Reaper are played before Psyche! could be played, and since the combat is no longer ending, Psyche! cannot be played.


This is just what I was looking for, thanks! Saving this in my private rules notes... :)

My confusion was mostly from thinking that TT / RR were queuing a combat, when they actually don't count as doing that (continuing current combat is a different thing).

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