file Questions 2

04 Jul 2020 00:48 #100246 by Proeliator
Questions 2 was created by Proeliator
Hey guys I have a second set of questions that came up during our second set of games. Any help answering them would be greatly appreciated.

1. What are the rules around playing trophy cards? I tried to find specific rules about them but couldn’t find anything that clearly explained when or if you can play them. They appear to be master cards that you can play on vampires. They seem very strong so I was wondering if each vampire is limited to 1 or if there are certain conditions around what kinds of vampires can have one? Or if they are even playable at all?

2. There appears to be re-wording from some of the older cards to the newer cards. Two examples are rutors hand and misdirection. When the text or effects are changed from the older cards in the newer sets do the changes retroactively apply to the older cards as well as the new ones?

3. One of the players in our last game wanted to put two aching beaty cards on a single vampire. It seemed to defy the flavor of the game by allowing two of the same effects and cards to apply on a single vampire. How can you have double aching beauty etc. I couldn’t find anything in the rules that says you can’t though either. So are you allowed to stack cards like masters which have passive effects of the same name such as aching beauty?

4. There are several cards or effects that allow you play 2 master cards per turn. These all seem to be from the original sets. So if you stick to the literal interpretation of the language then if you had 2 different cards with that effect then you could still only play 2 masters. However some cards allow you to play an additional master card per turn which theoretically could allow you to play 3 or even more master cards per turn. So is that just a semantic discrepancy with the older cards where all cards and effects that allow you play two master cards should be treated as if you could play an additional master card per turn? Or should we keep playing where the only cards which allow you to play more than 2 master cards per turn are those that specifically say “additional master card/phase” per turn? That came up in our games.

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04 Jul 2020 04:24 #100247 by hardyrange
Replied by hardyrange on topic Questions 2

1. What are the rules around playing trophy cards? I tried to find specific rules about them but couldn’t find anything that clearly explained when or if you can play them. They appear to be master cards that you can play on vampires. They seem very strong so I was wondering if each vampire is limited to 1 or if there are certain conditions around what kinds of vampires can have one? Or if they are even playable at all?

www.vekn.net/rulebook

1.6.2. Master Cards

3. Trophy: A trophy may be put into play using a master phase action (or can be retrieved as listed under "Red List" in section 11). It has no effect until it is moved to a vampire. When any vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action (including diablerie), the controller of the trophy may choose to move the trophy to that vampire. Any number of trophies in play may be moved to the vampire in this way (in addition to the single trophy that the vampire's controller may retrieve from her library, ash heap or hand). Once placed on a vampire, a trophy is controlled by the controller of the vampire it is on, and it cannot be awarded again.

11. Special Terms

Red List: Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to mark a Red List minion for the current turn. Any ready vampire she controls may enter combat with a marked Red List minion as a +1 stealth (D) action that costs 1 blood. Each vampire can take this action only once each turn. If a vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action (including diablerie), his controller may search her library, ash heap and/or hand for a master trophy card to put on that vampire and then reshuffle her library or draw back up to her hand size as necessary. Other trophies may be moved to this vampire, as well (see section 1.6.2). This is done before the blood hunt referendum is called, if any.

2. There appears to be re-wording from some of the older cards to the newer cards. Two examples are rutors hand and misdirection. When the text or effects are changed from the older cards in the newer sets do the changes retroactively apply to the older cards as well as the new ones?

The newest card text always applies , and overrides text printed in earlier editions.
The official card texts are available under www.vekn.net/card-lists

3. One of the players in our last game wanted to put two aching beaty cards on a single vampire. It seemed to defy the flavor of the game by allowing two of the same effects and cards to apply on a single vampire. How can you have double aching beauty etc. I couldn’t find anything in the rules that says you can’t though either. So are you allowed to stack cards like masters which have passive effects of the same name such as aching beauty?

All cards (master cards and others) do stack by default. Specific card text is needed to forbid that.

4. There are several cards or effects that allow you play 2 master cards per turn. These all seem to be from the original sets. So if you stick to the literal interpretation of the language then if you had 2 different cards with that effect then you could still only play 2 masters. However some cards allow you to play an additional master card per turn which theoretically could allow you to play 3 or even more master cards per turn. So is that just a semantic discrepancy with the older cards where all cards and effects that allow you play two master cards should be treated as if you could play an additional master card per turn? Or should we keep playing where the only cards which allow you to play more than 2 master cards per turn are those that specifically say “additional master card/phase” per turn? That came up in our games.

You are right: Some cards specifically set the number of maste phase actions you get, while others give you an additional master phase.
The classic example: Both Anson and Rumors of Gehenna state that they give you two master phase actions. Even if you have both in play, you still have exactly two master phase actions.
This is not a semantic discrepancy. As always, however, please look what the most recnet official card text is.

"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ankha, Proeliator

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04 Jul 2020 20:55 #100253 by Proeliator
Replied by Proeliator on topic Questions 2


1.6.2. Master Cards

3. Trophy: A trophy may be put into play using a master phase action (or can be retrieved as listed under "Red List" in section 11). It has no effect until it is moved to a vampire. When any vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action (including diablerie), the controller of the trophy may choose to move the trophy to that vampire. Any number of trophies in play may be moved to the vampire in this way (in addition to the single trophy that the vampire's controller may retrieve from her library, ash heap or hand). Once placed on a vampire, a trophy is controlled by the controller of the vampire it is on, and it cannot be awarded again.

11. Special Terms

Red List: Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to mark a Red List minion for the current turn. Any ready vampire she controls may enter combat with a marked Red List minion as a +1 stealth (D) action that costs 1 blood. Each vampire can take this action only once each turn. If a vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action (including diablerie), his controller may search her library, ash heap and/or hand for a master trophy card to put on that vampire and then reshuffle her library or draw back up to her hand size as necessary. Other trophies may be moved to this vampire, as well (see section 1.6.2). This is done before the blood hunt referendum is called, if any.


Ok so if I'm interpreting those rules correctly the only way you can place a trophy on a vampire is if that vampire burns a "red list" vampire? And the only way to "red list" a vampire is to use a master phase action to do so? I'm assuming that there are no other limitations for what can be "red listed?"

For example if we were playing with the original VTES cards plus a few trophy cards could I just start my master phase and announce that I am "red listing" one of my opponents vampires and proceed to attack as a direct action? Or am I missing something else? I'm assuming that "mark" and "red list" are synonymous for all intents and purposes? In other words that "red list" minions don't exist outside of the ones "marked" using the above referenced rule?

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04 Jul 2020 21:41 - 04 Jul 2020 21:58 #100254 by Hobbesgoblin
Replied by Hobbesgoblin on topic Questions 2

Ok so if I'm interpreting those rules correctly the only way you can place a trophy on a vampire is if that vampire burns a "red list" vampire?


The only way to place trophys in vampires is to burn a "red list" minion, there are Red list Allies for example, during combat or during a (D) Action. (There are some Political Cards that burn minions, these cannot grant trophies, as these are undirected)

And the only way to "red list" a vampire is to use a master phase action to do so?


Red list is a Traitthat a minion can have, it is directly printed on the card. It can be on any kind of minion, vampires and alies:

Mata Hari
Independent. Red List
Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan.

Ossian
Unique werewolf with 4 life. 2 strength, 0 bleed. Red List.
Ossian may enter combat with any vampire as a +1 stealth (D) action. In the first round of combat with a vampire who has played a card that requires Auspex [aus] during this action, that vampire cannot use any maneuvers or strikes. Ossian gains 1 life at the end of each round for each blood the opposing vampire used to heal damage or prevent destruction that round.

In total there are 22 Vampires and two Allies that have the "Red List" trait directly printed on their card, If I'm not mistaken

There are Cards that can give this trait to minions that dont have it yet:

Red List
Requires a ready, titled, non-Red List vampire.
(D) Choose a ready ally or a ready younger vampire. The chosen minion becomes Red List. That minion may not attempt to block this action.

Trumped-Up Charges
]Requires a titled non-Red List vampire.
Choose a ready non-Red List minion. If this referendum succeeds, put this card on that minion. This minion is now Red List. In this referendum, the chosen minion's controller gets 2 additional votes for every Red List minion in play. Any titled vampire may call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action. Burn this card if the minion is no longer Red List.

Public Enemy
+1 stealth action. Requires a non-Red List, non-{A}narch vampire.
(D) Choose a non-titled, non-Red List minion who either has successfully bled for 3 or more pool since your last turn or is infernal or anarch. The chosen minion becomes Red List.


A minion that already has the Red List trait, be it from being directly printed on the card, or gianed from a different effect can be "marked", by spending a master phase action. This allows your vampires to Enter combat with the "marked" minion. as a +1 stealth (D) action that costs 1 blood. To get the trophy you don't need to burn the minion during this special action, any combat or (D) action during wich a red list minion burns grants trophies.
Last edit: 04 Jul 2020 21:58 by Hobbesgoblin.

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04 Jul 2020 22:31 #100256 by Proeliator
Replied by Proeliator on topic Questions 2


Red list is a Traitthat a minion can have, it is directly printed on the card. It can be on any kind of minion, vampires and alies:

Mata Hari
Independent. Red List
Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan.


In total there are 22 Vampires and two Allies that have the "Red List" trait directly printed on their card, If I'm not mistaken

There are Cards that can give this trait to minions that dont have it yet:

Public Enemy
+1 stealth action. Requires a non-Red List, non-{A}narch vampire.
(D) Choose a non-titled, non-Red List minion who either has successfully bled for 3 or more pool since your last turn or is infernal or anarch. The chosen minion becomes Red List.


A minion that already has the Red List trait, be it from being directly printed on the card, or gianed from a different effect can be "marked", by spending a master phase action.


Thank you so much for such a thought out post. You completely clarified that for me. I haven't come across any of the "red list" traits so I was very confused but the trophy cards were too strong to not have some sort of special rules. Thank you for taking the time to explain that for me.

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