file First Tradition: the Masquerade goes first?

10 Jan 2021 00:59 #101399 by thiagotargino
Hello, fellow methuselahs!

I have a couple of questions about this text:

If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. Each Methuselah must burn 2 pool during his or her unlock phase. A Methuselah can choose to skip his or her entire turn. Burn this card when the controller has either skipped 3 turns or burned a total of 6 pool by this effect.

What is confusing is the "during his or her unlock phase". On previous versions there was not a phase specified on the card, so we just avoided the unlock phase entirely if skipped, but now the players are arguing about simultaneous effects and the choice of the player to order them.

So, How can I confirm this is the first thing that happen on unlock phase?

If a player has 2 Vessels on a vampire with 2 blood, can he get this blood before paying the cost during his unlock phase to keep tje rest of his turn?

Do the minions unlock before the decision to skip, since occurs both on unlock phase?

Thank you!


Targino

:malk: :AUS: :OBF: :PRE: :dai: :dem: :obe: :cap9: :anarch: Flip a coin. Thank you.

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10 Jan 2021 01:28 #101401 by kschaefer
You choose to take your turn or not. If you do during your unlock phase, you must burn two pool. It's no different than burning pool for Anarch Revolts, etc. You can order your unlock effects as desired, but you cannot pass the impulse until the mandatory unlock effects are handled.

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10 Jan 2021 01:48 #101402 by thiagotargino
So, since unlocking your minions is also mandatory, a player could unlock all his minions before choosing to skip the rest of the turn,right?

:malk: :AUS: :OBF: :PRE: :dai: :dem: :obe: :cap9: :anarch: Flip a coin. Thank you.

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10 Jan 2021 02:06 - 10 Jan 2021 02:14 #101403 by lip
No. If you don't get a turn, you don't get an unlock phase, since you don't have a turn ☺︎

So, first you chose if you take a turn or not. The decision to skip your turn or not happens before the unlock phase.

If you do take a turn, then first you unlock - this is not an effect you can order, it happens before any other effects during the unlock phase.

Once you have unlocked, you resolve any effect that happen during the unlock phase. Mandatory effects must be resolved before you pass the impulse. Paying for the Tradition is such a mandatory effect. You can get blood from your Vessel before resolving it.

Other effects can happen before the unlock phase, for example returning a minion that was taken with Malkavian Dementia. An interesting question would be: If I chose to skip my turn, go I get to keep the minion I stole last turn with Malkavian Dementia ?
Last edit: 10 Jan 2021 02:14 by lip.

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10 Jan 2021 04:16 #101404 by thiagotargino

lip wrote: No. If you don't get a turn, you don't get an unlock phase, since you don't have a turn ☺︎


The card text changed since Keepers of Tradition: "Each Methuselah must burn 2 pool during his or her unlock phase."

The whole point here is the phrasing indicating this decision happens at unlock phase, which implies your unlock phase started and will end if you don't pay 2 pool.

So, if we follow the "mandatory precedence" rule, untap your minions is also mandatory, thus the player could choose which one goes first.

But this doesn't sound right. I agree the turn would be entirely skipped, but card text states otherwise.

:malk: :AUS: :OBF: :PRE: :dai: :dem: :obe: :cap9: :anarch: Flip a coin. Thank you.

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10 Jan 2021 07:05 #101405 by Boris The Blade
The decision and the burning of the pool do not happen at the same time. You choose to take a turn or not before your turn starts. If you decide to take a turn, then you will have to burn 2 pool at a later point during your unlock phase, subject to the standard sequencing rules.
The following user(s) said Thank You: lip

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