file Rulebook, Gaining Votes

27 Jan 2021 08:34 - 27 Jan 2021 08:35 #101505 by Snodig

◼ Political Action Cards: Each Methuselah may gain 1 vote by using a political action card. These cards say “worth 1 vote” to indicate this. If a political action card was used to call the referendum, that card provides 1 vote for the acting vampire’s controller. Other political action cards used for votes are simply burned without regard to the text on the cards. Each Methuselah can gain no more than 1 vote from political action cards.

The wording here seems ambiguous to me. What constitutes "using" a PA card is not clear, and I'm not convinced a novice would know that they can be discarded/burned from hand to gain one vote.
Whether or not votes are gained from PA cards in play is also not clear.
A loose suggestion to clarify my gripe:

◼ Political Action Cards: Each Methuselah may gain 1 vote by using a political action card. These cards say “worth 1 vote” to indicate this. If a political action card was played to call the referendum, that card provides 1 vote for the acting vampire’s controller. Each Methuselah can discard a political action card during the referendum to gain 1 vote for that Methuselah. Political action cards discarded this way are simply burned without regard to the text on the cards. Each Methuselah can gain no more than 1 vote from political action cards.

Last edit: 27 Jan 2021 08:35 by Snodig. Reason: Emphasis

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27 Jan 2021 09:00 - 27 Jan 2021 09:01 #101506 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Rulebook, Gaining Votes
I concur it would be clearer that way but I think ruling-wise, "use" and "play" are 2 different things.

I can't find the ruling but IIRC, you can't "use" a PA being on the table due to being drawn from your prey library using Agaitas text. It has to be "played" or "discarded" but it can't be "used".

Ankha a confirmation ?

But to be honest, I think your proposal would change only minor things and would make things easier to grasp for beginner (and for veteran who have to decide obscure interaction using the rulebook and the card text...)

Agaitas, The Scholar of Antiquities
Sabbat: When you play a card, you may draw its replacement from your prey's library instead of your own. Put the card drawn face-up in front of you. It is still considered to be in your hand, to be played or discarded as normal.
Last edit: 27 Jan 2021 09:01 by Timo. Reason: Typo

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27 Jan 2021 09:11 #101507 by Snodig
Replied by Snodig on topic Rulebook, Gaining Votes
Sure, my suggestion was just to illustrate the problem.
I put my faith in the RD to find the best wording.

Beginner friendliness has always been a challenge with VtES, so let's make it better.

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28 Jan 2021 13:28 - 28 Jan 2021 13:33 #101514 by lip
Replied by lip on topic Rulebook, Gaining Votes
@Timo you're sure about this Agaitas thing? Out of the blue, I would not have ruled that way... If you ever find the ruling, I'd be interested to add it to the Codex/KRCG database. Or maybe you're confusing with Erciyes Fragment, where the card retrieved is not considered to be in your hand (contrary to Agaitas ability).
Last edit: 28 Jan 2021 13:33 by lip.

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29 Jan 2021 09:02 #101516 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Rulebook, Gaining Votes
Not 100% sure but IIRC it was a ruling Ankha did "on the fly" in a friendly game some months ago.

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08 Mar 2021 17:06 #101795 by Snodig
Replied by Snodig on topic Rulebook, Gaining Votes
Related; does 'using' a card to gain 1 vote constitute playing it?
For once-per-game cards, I mean.

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