question-circle Call the Wild Hunt at superior

23 May 2021 16:53 #102300 by lip
When can the Call the Wild Hunt superior effect be used in a combat?

1. Can it be used before the strikes resolve?
Scenario: A is in combat with B. A plays CtWH, no maneuvers, strikes 1 aggravated. B chooses hand strike. Can A discard a Raven before B goes to torpor to inflict 1 more damage?

2. Does the damage resolve together with the strikes damages? Or when the effect is used?
Scenario: A is in combat with B. A plays CtWH, no maneuvers, strikes 1 from hand strike. B chooses hand strike. A discards a Raven to inflict 1 more damage, can B use a single Soak to prevent both damages? If yes, could A have waited after strike damage resolution to use CtWH effect to add one damage?

Call the Wild Hunt


Soak

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24 May 2021 14:51 #102301 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Call the Wild Hunt at superior
I understand you are after an official answer but here is my take on it.

1. Can it be used before the strikes resolve?
Scenario: A is in combat with B. A plays CtWH, no maneuvers, strikes 1 aggravated. B chooses hand strike. Can A discard a Raven before B goes to torpor to inflict 1 more damage?

I would say no as the card text clearly says during the strike resolution phase. Don´t see how this would change the outcome if it could be played before, please explain what i´m missing. Resolution would be that the aggravated damage is resolved first which sends B to torpor and then B would have to resolve the regular damage second inflicted from superior CtWH.

2. Does the damage resolve together with the strikes damages? Or when the effect is used?
Scenario: A is in combat with B. A plays CtWH, no maneuvers, strikes 1 from hand strike. B chooses hand strike. A discards a Raven to inflict 1 more damage, can B use a single Soak to prevent both damages? If yes, could A have waited after strike damage resolution to use CtWH effect to add one damage?
 

There is nothing that would insinuate that it would be separate and the effect is to be used during the strike resolution phase which is followed by and includes the damage resolution step, so i would say yes together.

Also for clarity to new players... as the damage from the superior effect of CtWH is environmental damage caused not by a strike effect a strike: dodge wouldn't´t prevent B from having to deal with the damage.
The following user(s) said Thank You: lip

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25 May 2021 07:21 #102306 by lip
Replied by lip on topic Call the Wild Hunt at superior
Well for one, I guess if the damage is resolved together with strike damage, then on question 1. you have to mend the CtWH damage before you handle aggravated damage.

But, to answer your question:

I would say no as the card text clearly says during the strike resolution phase. Don´t see how this would change the outcome if it could be played before, please explain what i´m missing.

If it can be played before the strikes resolves, it surely cannot be played before a strike: combat ends resolves (rulebook: those resolves before any effect). But at the same time, if it is to be used after the strikes resolve, then the damage cannot be "grouped" with the strike damage and you would need two prevention cards. So... when can it be used exactly?

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25 May 2021 10:02 - 25 May 2021 10:04 #102307 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Call the Wild Hunt at superior
I think I understand your concern but I don't think the damage should be handled differently than the damage from a carrion crow or a wolf companion.

There is still the question about the possibility to discard cards after a combat end is played. (I would rule that yes you can but for no damage)

Name: Carrion Crows
[Sabbat:C, SW:C/PT2, CE:PN2, Anarchs:PG2, BH:PN3, LoB:PA2, Third:C, LotN:PR3, KoT:C, SP:DoF5, FB:PN5, V5:PN2]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Animalism
Only usable before range is determined. A vampire can play only one Carrion Crows each combat.
[ani] The opposing minion takes 1R environmental damage each round this combat during normal strike resolution.
[ANI] As above, but for 2R environmental damage.
Artist: Michael Dixon; Richard Thomas

Name: Wolf Companion
[Jyhad:U2, VTES:U, Sabbat:U, SW:PT, KMW:PG, Third:PTz2]
Cardtype: Retainer
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Animalism
Animal with 2 life.
[ani] When the minion with this retainer is in combat, the opposing minion takes 1 damage during strike resolution (if the range is close).
[ANI] As above, but Wolf Companion has 3 life.
Artist: Zina Saunders; Melissa Benson
Last edit: 25 May 2021 10:04 by Timo.

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25 May 2021 10:08 - 25 May 2021 10:09 #102308 by lip
Replied by lip on topic Call the Wild Hunt at superior
Well I do not think you can use the effect, even just for discarding cards with no damage, after a strike: combat ends is played. From the rulebook, the combat ends resolves first, and that brings you out of strike resolution immediately, so I think you cannot use the effect anymore.
Last edit: 25 May 2021 10:09 by lip.

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25 May 2021 10:35 - 25 May 2021 10:42 #102310 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Call the Wild Hunt at superior
I disagree.

If A is the acting minion, I would rule that beginning the "strike resolution windows" A has the opportunity to use an effect playable in this window.


EDITH : for reference, I found a ruling from Ankha which seems to say that "normal strike resolution" just does not exist in case of S:CE. I am in doubt !

​​​​​​​(www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/78582-thoughts-betrayed-interaction-with-different-striking-situation#99680)




I tried to find any such effect in cards for reference :

Name: Darkling Trickery
[BL:R1, LoB:R, POD:DTC]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Mytherceria/Obtenebration
[obt] Press, only usable to end combat.
[myt] Maneuver or press.
[MYT] Only usable if the opposing minion strikes with a weapon that inflicts ranged damage. That weapon inflicts no damage. The opposing minion takes 1R environmental damage during normal strike resolution.
Artist: Dennis Calero

Name: Fear of the Void Below
[BL:C1, KMW:PB]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Daimoinon/Obfuscate
A vampire may play only one Fear of the Void Below each combat.
[obf] Maneuver.
[dai] Only usable before range is determined. Each round of this combat defaults to long range, and this vampire gets an optional press each round, only usable to end combat.
[DAI] As [dai] above, and the opposing minion's controller discards one card at random from his or her hand during the initial strike resolution phase of each round.
Artist: Jim Nelson

Name: Gianna di Canneto
[TU:C]
Cardtype: Ally
Clan: Giovanni
Cost: 1 pool
Unique wraith with 2 life. 1 strength, 1 bleed.
If another minion you control is in combat, Gianna can lock and burn herself to burn an equipment on the opposing minion, or lock during strike resolution to inflict 1 unpreventable damage on the opposing minion.
Artist: Javier Santos
 
Last edit: 25 May 2021 10:42 by Timo.

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