file Pressing Flesh and Imbued

05 Nov 2021 15:09 #103799 by inm8
Can an imbued be brought back from the ash heap with Pressing Flesh, can they still use Convictions, etc because they are still Imbued even though they are no longer mortals but zombies?

Pressing Flesh


Rulebook

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05 Nov 2021 18:13 - 05 Nov 2021 18:16 #103803 by Bloodartist

Can an imbued be brought back from the ash heap with Pressing Flesh

Yes. Imbued are allies so legal targets for pressing flesh.

can they still use Convictions, etc because they are still Imbued even though they are no longer mortals but zombies?

No. They transform into zombies who have no other abilities except what Pressing flesh says. They are no longer imbued.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 05 Nov 2021 18:16 by Bloodartist.

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05 Nov 2021 18:41 #103804 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Pressing Flesh and Imbued
Ruling [LSJ 20100211] supporting the above.

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05 Nov 2021 19:19 #103805 by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Pressing Flesh and Imbued
That ruling is really bad. Per the Imbued rules appendix, "Imbued is a type of crypt card" and the fact that Imbued "is considered a mortal ally" should have no bearing on the fact that a non-mortal Imbued is possible. Imbued are crypt cards per the rules. Those cards don't stop being that crypt card subtype just because their ally type changes. And theoretically, nothing would prevent the designers from creating an Imbued that was a ghoul or some other existing ally type or even a new ally type.

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05 Nov 2021 20:17 - 05 Nov 2021 20:31 #103806 by Bloodartist

That ruling is really bad. Per the Imbued rules appendix, "Imbued is a type of crypt card" and the fact that Imbued "is considered a mortal ally" should have no bearing on the fact that a non-mortal Imbued is possible. Imbued are crypt cards per the rules. Those cards don't stop being that crypt card subtype just because their ally type changes. And theoretically, nothing would prevent the designers from creating an Imbued that was a ghoul or some other existing ally type or even a new ally type.


Im not sure how above is relevant. The point is that pressing flesh turns the cards into something else. The same way spell of life turns vampires into mummies. They are no longer vampires, they are mummies. They stop being what they originally were, so it doesnt matter what they originally were. The only thing that matters is that they are ally cards in the ash heap when pressing flesh targets them.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 05 Nov 2021 20:31 by Bloodartist.

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09 Nov 2021 18:37 - 09 Nov 2021 23:30 #103843 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Pressing Flesh and Imbued

That ruling is really bad. Per the Imbued rules appendix, "Imbued is a type of crypt card" and the fact that Imbued "is considered a mortal ally" should have no bearing on the fact that a non-mortal Imbued is possible. Imbued are crypt cards per the rules.


I think you are spot on the money here...it would be a different matter if the rules instead of stating:

Imbued are new crypt cards. An imbued is considered a mortal ally, not a vampire.


stated:

Imbued are new crypt cards. An imbued is a type of mortal ally, not a vampire.


but it doesn´t which makes the ruling not just bad but actually wrong....it should be reversed or the rulebook updated.



Those cards don't stop being that crypt card subtype just because their ally type changes. And theoretically, nothing would prevent the designers from creating an Imbued that was a ghoul or some other existing ally type or even a new ally type.


It would make more sense based on that the imbued who is just considered a mortal ally (for cards and effects) but actually isn't one that the ally type change from Pressing Flesh would be irrelevant/not applicable.




That ruling is really bad. Per the Imbued rules appendix, "Imbued is a type of crypt card" and the fact that Imbued "is considered a mortal ally" should have no bearing on the fact that a non-mortal Imbued is possible. Imbued are crypt cards per the rules. Those cards don't stop being that crypt card subtype just because their ally type changes. And theoretically, nothing would prevent the designers from creating an Imbued that was a ghoul or some other existing ally type or even a new ally type.


Im not sure how above is relevant. The point is that pressing flesh turns the cards into something else. The same way spell of life turns vampires into mummies. They are no longer vampires, they are mummies. They stop being what they originally were, so it doesnt matter what they originally were. The only thing that matters is that they are ally cards in the ash heap when pressing flesh targets them.



The relevance is that in this scenario Pressing Flesh is an ally type change on an imbued who is only considered a mortal ally i.e. it doesn´t actually change it from being an imbued, at most the considered ally type would be affected which is questionable how something it isn't can be changed.

You are right in that both Pressing Flesh and Spell of Life impose a change even though not of the same kind. If the wording of Pressing Flesh would be "becomes a zombie ally" (similar to Spell of Life) it would mean to change from whatever i.e. ally, imbued, or vampire (if somehow considered an ally in the ash heap) to a zombie ally regardless if the target is actually, or just being considered as something.

Name: Pressing Flesh
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Thanatosis
+1 stealth action.
:thn: Move an ally in any ash heap who was burned from play to your ready region with this card and life equal to its starting life. This ally is a zombie instead of what it used to be, gets -1 bleed, cannot gain life, and can play cards requiring basic Fortitude [for] as a vampire.
:THN: As above, but with 1 additional life.


Name: Spell of Life
Cardtype: Action
Clan: Ministry
+1 stealth action. Only one Spell of Life can be played each turn.
Put this card in play. You can burn five copies of this card in play to put up to five vampires from your uncontrolled region in play; each becomes a unique mummy ally with life equal to capacity, 2 strength and 1 bleed who can enter combat with a minion as a (D) action.

Last edit: 09 Nov 2021 23:30 by inm8.

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