file Rulebook: Potentially misleading and oddly placed passages

11 Jan 2022 10:32 - 11 Jan 2022 10:42 #104438 by Dthamilaye
Hello.
My apologies if this thread is not a correct place to mention this issue I had when reading the rules.

I'm not a rules guru on the game. I just read the Rules version 1.0 (PDF, 2020) and was confused about additional strikes and damage prevention. It seemed to work differently than I recalled from 10 years ago and then I went to internet to verify that it still works as I remembered.

HOW I UNDERSTOOD THE RULE FROM RULEBOOK:
- All strikes (including additional strikes) do the damage they do to opposing minion. Then the damage prevention is done in a big "lump" for all the accumulated damage.

HOW I UNDERSTAND THE RULE SHOULD BE:
- Each strike has it's own damage prevention -phase. I.e. each strike damage prevention is done after the specific strike.


DETAILS:
Page 28 gives the "Combat sequence" as:
1. Before range
2. Determine range
3. Before strikes
4. Strike: "Announce and resolve strikes" <- The plural here probably means the strike from both opponents, but could be understood to also mean any additional strikes.
5. Damage resolution: Prevent and Mend damage. <- Damage resolution as a completely separate step gives a feeling that all strikes are announced and resolved (i.e damage dealt, without prevent/mend) before this step.
6. Press
7. End of Round.

The part starting from page 29, "4. Strike", first contains the following text on page 30:
"... minions first choose their respective strikes ... and then the strikes are resolved."
Then there are "Choose Strike" and "Resolve Strike" -topics contained within the "4. Strike".
Additional strikes are also handled within this section.
After this, there is "5. Damage Resolution" as it's own section/topic.

Somehow, with this structure, I get the understanding that first ALL strikes are handled and resolved for damage, WITHOUT damage prevention, because damage prevention is it's own section after strikes.

I do see that p. 30 "Resolve strike" mentions "...they must burn blood or life, as appropriate (See Damage Resolution p.31)." but still, with the Damage Resolution as a separate section AFTER the strikes, it looks like strikes and damage for them are done first, and damage resolution afterwards. It feels like this clause just informs that afterwards, you have a chance to prevent/mend the damage that you have accumulated from opponent strikes.

I.e. When reading this, it was not clear enough (for me) that the whole section 5. is supposed to be part of the second paragraph on the right side column on page 30, for each strike separately.

FIX?:

Easiest fix would be to add something like the following note in the p.30 "Advanced rules ... Additional strikes:" -box
"For each additional strike, repeat sections 4. Strike and 5. Damage Resolution"

Alternatively, the second paragraph on right side column on page 30 could have somewhat clearer wording that this is the place where whole section 5. will be executed for each separate strike.

Personally I would like to change the damage resolution phase to be a sub-section of the strike phase, but that might cause other problems.

In fact, it would help already if the fight example with additional strikes on page 31 would use damage prevention after each strike.

It could also be enough that the section "5. Damage Resolution" would say "Receive, prevent and mend damage" or some such, not just "Prevent and Mend". This would make it clearer that section 5. is not just about preventing and mending damage.

Bah, maybe it is just me who was confused and this is clear for everyone else :P.
Last edit: 11 Jan 2022 10:42 by Dthamilaye.

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11 Jan 2022 12:41 - 11 Jan 2022 12:42 #104439 by Ankha

Hello.
My apologies if this thread is not a correct place to mention this issue I had when reading the rules.

I'm not a rules guru on the game. I just read the Rules version 1.0 (PDF, 2020) and was confused about additional strikes and damage prevention. It seemed to work differently than I recalled from 10 years ago and then I went to internet to verify that it still works as I remembered.

HOW I UNDERSTOOD THE RULE FROM RULEBOOK:
- All strikes (including additional strikes) do the damage they do to opposing minion. Then the damage prevention is done in a big "lump" for all the accumulated damage.

HOW I UNDERSTAND THE RULE SHOULD BE:
- Each strike has it's own damage prevention -phase. I.e. each strike damage prevention is done after the specific strike.

The latter is correct. Each pair of strikes has its own damage resolution step.

4. Strike: "Announce and resolve strikes" <- The plural here probably means the strike from both opponents, but could be understood to also mean any additional strikes.

This is the headline. See www.vekn.net/rulebook#strike for the full description.

5. Damage resolution: Prevent and Mend damage. <- Damage resolution as a completely separate step gives a feeling that all strikes are announced and resolved (i.e damage dealt, without prevent/mend) before this step.

Correct, damage is inflicted during the strike resolution.
Then, preventing the damage or not during the 5th step determines if the damage was successfully inflicted or not, and if the minions taking damage must burn blood/life and/or become wounded.

The part starting from page 29, "4. Strike", first contains the following text on page 30:
"... minions first choose their respective strikes ... and then the strikes are resolved."
Then there are "Choose Strike" and "Resolve Strike" -topics contained within the "4. Strike".
Additional strikes are also handled within this section.
After this, there is "5. Damage Resolution" as it's own section/topic.

Somehow, with this structure, I get the understanding that first ALL strikes are handled and resolved for damage, WITHOUT damage prevention, because damage prevention is it's own section after strikes.

All strikes from the pair of strikes, right. It can be two strikes (one for both combatants) or only one, if only one minion had additional strikes.

I do see that p. 30 "Resolve strike" mentions "...they must burn blood or life, as appropriate (See Damage Resolution p.31)." but still, with the Damage Resolution as a separate section AFTER the strikes, it looks like strikes and damage for them are done first, and damage resolution afterwards. It feels like this clause just informs that afterwards, you have a chance to prevent/mend the damage that you have accumulated from opponent strikes.

See above, damage is inflicted during the strike resolution (step 4), as a batch. Damage from Carrion Crows are also inflicted during the normal strike resolution (that is the resolution of the first pair of strikes)

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 11 Jan 2022 12:42 by Ankha.
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