Burst of sunlight

Hi everyone. There has been a little discussion on our play group about the nature of the Last part of the burst of sunlight damage. It is clear that it is environmental damage, but the current text mentions two types of damage. 1R aggravated, AND this striking vampire ALSO TAKES ONE DAMAGE.
It is also clearly different from the Breath of the Dragon. The breath of the dragon only mentions one kind of damage that is applied to both minions, and makes an exception: if it is at long range. The cards a differences are below with our marks.
```
Name: Burst of Sunlight
[Jyhad:R2, VTES:R, CE:U, BH:PTr2, KMW:PB3, Third:U, KoT:U]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
[tha] Strike: 1R aggravated damage. This striking vampire also takes 1 aggravated damage.
[THA] Strike: 2R aggravated damage. This striking vampire also takes 2 aggravated damage.
Artist: Heather Hudson; Andrew Trabbold
```

Name: Breath of the Dragon
[Sabbat:R, SW:PT, Third:PTz, SP:DoF3]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Vicissitude
[vic] Strike: 1R aggravated damage. If this strike is used at close range, this vampire also takes the damage.
[VIC] As above, but for 2R aggravated damage.
Artist: Pete Venters

They are pretty different scenarios, since one clearly states two different types of damage 1R to the opposing minion and 1 damage (environmental) to the striking minion, And the other one only mentions a Ranged damage, that the striking minion also takes if it is at close range.

The rulebook also states that damage that is not R damage, does not affect the minion.
◼ Resolve Strike: The effects of the strikes from both minions are resolved simultaneously. Most strikes are effective only at close range, unless the strike is identified as ranged, does “R” damage, or is a defensive strike such as dodge or combat ends. Ranged strikes and strikes that do “R” damage can be used at any range, close or long.

So, the 1 aggravated from burst (to the striking minion) should occur only at close range right?



Also, from

LucasLinard wrote:

...
So, the 1 aggravated from burst (to the striking minion) should occur only at close range right?
...

No.

""Damage from a strike" only includes damage done to the opposing target. Side effect damage is not counted as "damage from a strike". Therefore, self-inflicted damage from Zip Gun, Grenade, Burst of Sunlight, Body of Sun, etc. is side effect damage and is not preventable by "prevent damage from a strike" effects like Skin of Steel, Leather Jacket, etc. [LSJ 19970108] [ ]" www.vekn.net/general-rulings

As the Side effect damage is not counted to be from the strike, it also ignores to usual (R) requirements on close-long range part of the equation. Burst will deal 1-2 (preventable) aggravated damage to striking minion from any distance.

Not talking about preventing damage from strike as quoted on LSJ ruling.
Also, it is pretty clear that the damage done to the striking minion IS environmental, an só cannot be prevented by cards thar that "prevent damage from strike". That's not the point here.
What I am arguing here is that I could not find ANY definition on the rulebook that states that ENVIRONMENTAL "normal" damage does not diferenciate from "R type DAMAGE". So if it is an environmental NOT "R" damage, it should not be taken at long range because is pretty clear that 1 damage is different than 1R damage, evironmental or not.

LucasLinard wrote:

Not talking about preventing damage from strike as quoted on LSJ ruling.
Also, it is pretty clear that the damage done to the striking minion IS environmental, an só cannot be prevented by cards thar that "prevent damage from strike". That's not the point here.
What I am arguing here is that I could not find ANY definition on the rulebook that states that ENVIRONMENTAL "normal" damage does not diferenciate from "R type DAMAGE". So if it is an environmental NOT "R" damage, it should not be taken at long range because is pretty clear that 1 damage is different than 1R damage, evironmental or not.

Let's ponder a moment a situation where range determines whether or not side effect damage occurs to a minion.

How in that situation Bear-Baiting and similar cards would work as the range only exists inside combat and thus the 1 damage cannot be applied? How does "this anarch takes 1 unpreventable damage" and "This striking vampire also takes 1 aggravated damage." differ with the exception of 1) one being unpreventable per card text and 2) one being aggravated?

Are you suggesting they've included the part of 1 damage to bear baiting for just giggles as there's no way to enforce it as there's no range and therefore no ability to inflict damage?

My point is as per the first reply, range is only used to determine whether or not the opposing minion's strike can connect. See also how Rötschreck can be played on aggravated strikes that would attempt succesfully deal damage against a minion. The General Rulings quote is to highlight the difference between "strike damage" and "side effect damage." If they're different, and one is affected by range (as explicitly said by rules) that does not mean the other one is as well. There has to be wording to say it. If it does not exist, then the minion takes the damage.

This goes to as far as the case where Zip gun being used by Ghoul retainer does it's 1 damage to the vampire, irrelevant of range, just because the card mentions "bearer takes" instead "user takes".

The Ghoul is never the "bearer" of the weapon that it uses. Any side-effect of using the weapon (e.g. Zip Gun, Grenade) is applied to the employing minion, as normal. [TOM 19951114]

There are plenty examples of environmental damage being described EXPLICITLY as "R" damage.
My question is. If there are environmental damages (e.g. Carrion Crows), that are not even from strike and are EXPLICITLY defined as "R" damage, others environmental "normal" damages that are resolved during strike resolution, should be taken only at close range.

Name: Carrion Crows
[Sabbat:C, SW:C/PT2, CE:PN2, Anarchs:PG2, BH:PN3, LoB:PA2, Third:C, LotN:PR3, KoT:C, SP:DoF5, FB:PN5, V5:PN2, V5A:PG6, NB:PN2]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Animalism
Only usable before range is determined. A vampire can play only one Carrion Crows each combat.
[ani] The opposing minion takes 1R environmental damage each round this combat during normal strike resolution.
[ANI] As above, but for 2R environmental damage.
Artist: Michael Dixon; Richard Thomas

To make the answers more logical - the minion playing Burst of Sunlight is always in close range with himself - no need for 'R' damage. It's the opposing minion that's at range and needs 'R' damage to affect him.