question-circle Playing On the Qui Vive after resolution of an action

21 Jun 2023 23:39 #108420 by Ratadin
This is driving me crazy.

On the rulebook, there are 21 mentions to reactions. On one of those, the rulebook says "Any ready unlocked minion you control can perform an action. The procedure for resolving an action is described in the following sections. Note that action modifiers and reaction cards can be played at any time in this process as appropriate, subject to the restrictions on adding stealth and intercept listed below."

On the next mention, it says "Action modifiers and reaction cards can be played at any time before resolution during an action, with the acting Methuselah getting the opportunity to play first.".

Although a bit confusing, I can understand that you cannot play reaction cards after resolution of an action (even if the first wording seems to indicate otherwise, unless resolving an action indicates only up to resolution on that sentence).

Then, we have the ruling for "wakes". On this ruling we have: "A vampire that wakes during an action can attempt to block that action and/or play reaction cards as though unlocked for the duration of the action. Wake effects can always be played during the “as a card is played” window, in order to play other reaction cards that must be played in that window. A reaction card that unlocks a vampire but does not wake it is not considered as a wake effect and cannot be played during the “as a card is played” window."

This ruling specifies that wake effects can always be played during "as a card is played" window, which happens when... a card is played. The "always" shows that we could play wake reactions beyond the allowed moments (that is, during resolution and after resolution), but only on a "as a card is played" window.

Still, the accepted ruling for On the Qui Vive (and any other wake effect) is "Can be played after action resolution to use a reaction card (eg. Fast Reaction after combat). [LSJ 20091123] ". This ruling means that, for some reason, you can play wake effects even when no "as a card is played" window is open. You could play it whenever to just cycle. And I'm certain that for almost my entire life playing VTES people has played On the Qui Vive + Delaying Tactics without needing anyone to play any card.

So, is this wake ruling correct? Is the reaction basic rule "you cannot play reactions during or after resolution unless otherwise stated"? Is the rulebook correct here?

I think there should be a more expanded rulebook, as the one right now has a lot of flaws when it comes to finding rules. It doesn't seem intuitive and I think this is the reason why some people don't even bother learning the rules and just wait for others to answer their ruling questions.

PS: I think I formatted it correctly this time :P
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22 Jun 2023 06:30 #108423 by inm8
The ruling is weak at best and comes across as poor quoting from LSJ part when answering.
Whether he is also answering the "I guess [..]" question is not entirely clear nor if it would only be applicable if a card is played or not.

imo based on the rules and the card text one should only be able to play wakes at/after resolution if a card was played in the "as it is played" window and cycling it would be to play the wake without any follow-on effect played.

>> The original ruling stems from the ruling that reaction cards (and action
>> modifiers, for that matter) can be played only before action resolution by
>> default. Explicit card text is needed to be played during or after
> resolution.
> Can Wake-like cards (WWeF, Forced Awakening, On the Qui Vive etc.) be played
> after resolution of an action, even though they don't have such explicit
> card text ? For instance, since you can play Wake+Denial of Aphrodite's
> Favor to cancel a Voter Captivation (the VC being played after resolution of
> the action, same timing window as Freak Drive), I guess you should be able
> to play just a Wake (for cycling purposes) after an action resolves ?
> Stone

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