Perfect Clarity vs Deflection
24 Jun 2023 15:24 - 24 Jun 2023 15:24 #108443
by yurian
Perfect Clarity vs Deflection was created by yurian
Hallo there,
I have a question re the card Perfect Clarity . Does the wording "Reaction cards thar require Dominate ... do not affect this vampire" imply that Deflection may not be used? Or can Deflection (or Redirection) be used coz it does not "affect" the vampire but the Methuselah being target of the bleed?
Thanks
I have a question re the card Perfect Clarity . Does the wording "Reaction cards thar require Dominate ... do not affect this vampire" imply that Deflection may not be used? Or can Deflection (or Redirection) be used coz it does not "affect" the vampire but the Methuselah being target of the bleed?
Thanks
Last edit: 24 Jun 2023 15:24 by yurian.
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24 Jun 2023 17:29 - 24 Jun 2023 17:35 #108445
by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Perfect Clarity vs Deflection
I've always assumed it meant all
reactions. Obedience snd Redirection refer to "that minion" but Murmur and deflection just refer to changing the target of the Bleed. All bounce states they can't bleed their controller, and that is the only line directly referencing the acting minion.
I've always assumed it made dominate bounce unplayable, I haven't used that card in years and nobody ever tried playing deflection when I used it. The big payoff back then was stunted most of the time because the card alone costs as much as a govern+conditioning, and was only effective at keeping a famous
vamp from getting out of
combat where I'd steal 2 round one, walk of flame round 2.
Design intent should be reflected in the wording, I'd say no deflection (similarly no extra down votes on a Dread gaze) but that wording should be changed or a rulebook ruling added.
Hopefully someone has a ruling I missed.
Edit;
All other cards with similar properties use the wording of "...cannot be played while this vampire is acting", whereas the "affect" is reserved for vote changes or werewolf pack.


I've always assumed it made dominate bounce unplayable, I haven't used that card in years and nobody ever tried playing deflection when I used it. The big payoff back then was stunted most of the time because the card alone costs as much as a govern+conditioning, and was only effective at keeping a famous


Design intent should be reflected in the wording, I'd say no deflection (similarly no extra down votes on a Dread gaze) but that wording should be changed or a rulebook ruling added.
Hopefully someone has a ruling I missed.
Edit;
All other cards with similar properties use the wording of "...cannot be played while this vampire is acting", whereas the "affect" is reserved for vote changes or werewolf pack.
Last edit: 24 Jun 2023 17:35 by ReverendRevolver.
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24 Jun 2023 18:35 #108446
by inm8
Deflection cannot be played, ruling references [LSJ 20010621] [LSJ 20010830]
What affects the action being taken by the vampire also affects that vampire.
Replied by inm8 on topic Perfect Clarity vs Deflection
Does the wording "Reaction cards thar require Dominate ... do not affect this vampire" imply that Deflection may not be used? Or can Deflection (or Redirection) be used coz it does not "affect" the vampire but the Methuselah being target of the bleed?
Deflection cannot be played, ruling references [LSJ 20010621] [LSJ 20010830]
What affects the action being taken by the vampire also affects that vampire.
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25 Jun 2023 05:43 #108451
by inm8
Dread Gaze is playable as it grants the reacting vampire votes and thus isn´t actually affecting the acting vampire. The referenced ruling [LSJ 20010830] includes this notion and is confirmed by LSJ.
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 2 blood
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Only usable when the action is announced.
Reaction cards that require Dominate [dom] or Presence
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Dominate
Only usable if a minion is bleeding you, after blocks are declined.
Lock this reacting vampire. Change the target of the bleed to another Methuselah other than the acting minion's controller (that Methuselah can attempt to block).
As above, but do not lock this vampire.
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Presence
Only usable during a referendum.
This reacting vampire gains 2 votes.
This reacting vampire gains 4 votes.
Replied by inm8 on topic Perfect Clarity vs Deflection
Design intent should be reflected in the wording, I'd say no deflection (similarly no extra down votes on a Dread gaze) but that wording should be changed or a rulebook ruling added.
Dread Gaze is playable as it grants the reacting vampire votes and thus isn´t actually affecting the acting vampire. The referenced ruling [LSJ 20010830] includes this notion and is confirmed by LSJ.
Perfect Clarity
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 2 blood
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Only usable when the action is announced.

do not affect this vampire for the duration of this action.
As above, and for the remainder of this action, minions opposing this vampire in combat cannot play cards that require Dominate or Presence.
Deflection
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Dominate
Only usable if a minion is bleeding you, after blocks are declined.


Dread Gaze
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Presence
Only usable during a referendum.


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25 Jun 2023 08:36 #108453
by yurian
Replied by yurian on topic Perfect Clarity vs Deflection
Thanks all for the answers. All clear.
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