Dam the Heart's River and Target Vitals
03 Jul 2024 23:31 #111911
by Killiam
-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"I look back from where I'm from
Look at the woman I've become
And the strangest things seem
Suddenly routine"
-Hedwig Robinson
Replied by Killiam on topic Dam the Heart's River and Target Vitals
Nowhere in the text of DtHR does it mention "sources" of damage nor "instances" of damage. The term in question is "damaging effects." Effects and sources are distinct concepts in game terms. That is why a ruling is needed and not more opinions.
Based on the LSJ ruling for Nephandus, I expect it will come out as you say, but the real ask here is for clarity on that ruling.
Based on the LSJ ruling for Nephandus, I expect it will come out as you say, but the real ask here is for clarity on that ruling.
-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"I look back from where I'm from
Look at the woman I've become
And the strangest things seem
Suddenly routine"
-Hedwig Robinson
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
04 Jul 2024 16:14 #111917
by Yomyael
Prince of Bonn, Germany
Replied by Yomyael on topic Dam the Heart's River and Target Vitals
A damaging effect would be like Outside the Hourglass, that just inflicts damage.
Target Vitals however modifies the strike. It does not deal damage by itself, it says "this strike deals +2 damage". There is no additional damaging effect, simply a modification of a strike. It's the same reason why the additional damage from Target Vitals is aggravated if the strike itself dealt aggravated damage.
Target Vitals however modifies the strike. It does not deal damage by itself, it says "this strike deals +2 damage". There is no additional damaging effect, simply a modification of a strike. It's the same reason why the additional damage from Target Vitals is aggravated if the strike itself dealt aggravated damage.
Prince of Bonn, Germany
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kilrauko
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
05 Jul 2024 05:34 #111926
by Killiam
-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"I look back from where I'm from
Look at the woman I've become
And the strangest things seem
Suddenly routine"
-Hedwig Robinson
Replied by Killiam on topic Dam the Heart's River and Target Vitals
Yes, it modifies the strike... with damage. That's its effect.
Look, I know how the ruling will come out (I think we all know), but you can't tell me there's no room for reasonable, conflicting interpretation; there clearly is. That's why I have asked for an official ruling; so we don't have to have this conversation in the middle of a tournament.
There's really nothing to be gained by further discussion.
Look, I know how the ruling will come out (I think we all know), but you can't tell me there's no room for reasonable, conflicting interpretation; there clearly is. That's why I have asked for an official ruling; so we don't have to have this conversation in the middle of a tournament.
There's really nothing to be gained by further discussion.
-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"I look back from where I'm from
Look at the woman I've become
And the strangest things seem
Suddenly routine"
-Hedwig Robinson
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
05 Jul 2024 07:04 - 05 Jul 2024 07:08 #111927
by KoRneeshon
Replied by KoRneeshon on topic Dam the Heart's River and Target Vitals
There's a difference between "deal X damage" and "increase damage by X" - the first one is an effect dealing the damage, the other is an effect enhancing other damage dealing effect. Target Vitals, or e.g. Increased Strength enhance other effects. Yes, with more damage, but are not dealing damage themselves.
If it's easier for you can ask yourself if TV or IS will give you anything if played without the effect they modify? They won't, meaning they don't deal the damage themselves.
If it's easier for you can ask yourself if TV or IS will give you anything if played without the effect they modify? They won't, meaning they don't deal the damage themselves.
Last edit: 05 Jul 2024 07:08 by KoRneeshon.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kilrauko
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- KoRneeshon
-
- Offline
- Elder
-
Less
More
- Posts: 122
- Thank you received: 45
07 Jul 2024 18:32 #111959
by Killiam
-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"I look back from where I'm from
Look at the woman I've become
And the strangest things seem
Suddenly routine"
-Hedwig Robinson
Replied by Killiam on topic Dam the Heart's River and Target Vitals
You're not saying anything that everyone doesn't already know. You're also not saying anything relevant until we can get a ruling that says that damage-augmenting effects don't count as damaging effects. That ruling is what I'm asking for. Please note that to "deal" damage is not relevant to the inquiry. The inquiry is about the technical definition of "damaging effects." DtHR does not mention "damage dealing effects," which is a separate matter unless and until the rules team collapses those terms into one OFFICIALLY.
The ruling I'm asking for extends beyond Target Vitals, and in fact would include (or rather, exclude) Dam the Heart's River itself with respect to other cards concerned with "damaging effects" (e.g., Valerie Diaz, Nephandus).
The value of getting official rulings (which at this point I'm believing are actively discouraged by in-thread conversation) is having a place to point to for quickly settling debates that soak up clock time during tournaments. To that end, if you are not a member of the rules team, PLEASE STOP COMMENTING ON THIS THREAD. Thanks.
The ruling I'm asking for extends beyond Target Vitals, and in fact would include (or rather, exclude) Dam the Heart's River itself with respect to other cards concerned with "damaging effects" (e.g., Valerie Diaz, Nephandus).
The value of getting official rulings (which at this point I'm believing are actively discouraged by in-thread conversation) is having a place to point to for quickly settling debates that soak up clock time during tournaments. To that end, if you are not a member of the rules team, PLEASE STOP COMMENTING ON THIS THREAD. Thanks.
-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"I look back from where I'm from
Look at the woman I've become
And the strangest things seem
Suddenly routine"
-Hedwig Robinson
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
07 Jul 2024 19:18 #111960
by Ankha
It includes effect that inflict damage explicitly (by card text) or implicitly (for instance a strike).
Replied by Ankha on topic Dam the Heart's River and Target Vitals
"damaging effect": an effect that inflicts damage.The inquiry is about the technical definition of "damaging effects." DtHR does not mention "damage dealing effects," which is a separate matter unless and until the rules team collapses those terms into one OFFICIALLY.
It includes effect that inflict damage explicitly (by card text) or implicitly (for instance a strike).
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.090 seconds
- You are here:
-
Home
-
Forum
-
V:TES Discussion
-
Rules Questions
- Dam the Heart's River and Target Vitals