Diablerie - ADV Rule 4

thiago_sousa wrote:

And that is the exact point: by rule, you CAN search your library but, if you ALREADY KNOW that your deck doesn't have that master: discipline card, searching only to get a chance to shuffle your deck is considered cheating?

No, because it's allowed by the rules. You can even "fail" to find a Discipline, even if there is one in your deck.

thiago_sousa wrote:

From now on, I'm gonna write they way I see this situation.
According to Judges' Guide, session 162, example 'B', I consider that the action to use a Vast Wealth to look for an equip card KNOWING that you dont have any more equip card left in your library is chaeting and conducted with bad faith -

It's legal.
However, stalling is not.

So if the player uses the Vast Wealth in order to simply shuffle their library, they can do so without looking at the deck if the judge agrees (because the judge have a quick look to confirm there is no equipment). Remember that Vast Wealth forces you to equip so it can basically oust the player if the cost is too high.
If the player uses the Vast Wealth to look at all the cards one by one and stall, the judge can take the adequate penalty and even add some time to the table.

It's the same for the diablerie. If the player looks quickly or simply shuffles their library because they don't want to fetch a Discipline card, they can. But they cannot stall.

thiago_sousa wrote:

It's legal.
However, stalling is not.

So if the player uses the Vast Wealth in order to simply shuffle their library, they can do so without looking at the deck if the judge agrees (because the judge have a quick look to confirm there is no equipment). Remember that Vast Wealth forces you to equip so it can basically oust the player if the cost is too high.
If the player uses the Vast Wealth to look at all the cards one by one and stall, the judge can take the adequate penalty and even add some time to the table.

It's the same for the diablerie. If the player looks quickly or simply shuffles their library because they don't want to fetch a Discipline card, they can. But they cannot stall.

But, if the player knows before hand that his deck doesn't have any more equipments to look for neither have master: discipline, shuffling their decks will give him some sort of advantage, like for example, the shuffling bring up a card that he needs that, otherwise, would take longer to came.

Sure, it's a legal and sensible use of the card.

thiago_sousa wrote:

That can change the course of a game. And, if this is done on purpose, on my point of view, is as much cheating as stolling.

It's not cheating as it is a legal use of the card.
Stalling is a different matter. You could stall by using a Dreams of the Sphinx and taking too much time to discard for instance. You could stall by playing a Magic of the Smith and taking too much time to find an equipment.
But if the player uses the Vast Wealth just to shuffle their deck, it's perfectly fine if there's a good reason (such as shuffling the card they just put under the deck using a Heart of Nizchetus).

thiago_sousa wrote:

An act commited on bad faith to acquire advantage, even if some breach in the rules allows it, it goes against the ethic and fair play, which is also illegal. If you decide that even though this is legal, I'll abide in accordance, but, the way I see, you're giving a white check for players act on bad faith.

There's no breach in the rule once again. Players are entitled to use their cards the way they see fit if it's legal. "Bad faith" has nothing to do here. It's not because you know your deck has no card to find that you cannot use an effect to search your library and shuffle it. It is allowed by the rules.

However, stalling is sanctioned. So if the player shuffles their deck without a good reason except to gain time, it can be sanctioned.

For instance, the player uses the Vast Wealth and there is no equipment left in the deck. They shuffle. The deck is randomized.

a) the player uses a Heart of Nizchetus and put some cards under the deck. They have a perfectly good reason to shuffle their deck later.
b) the player uses a Marrakesh Codex to look at the top cards of their deck. They have a perfectly good reason to shuffle their deck later if the cards are not the ones they want.
c) Another player takes a look at the top or bottom card of their deck. They have a perfectly good reason to shuffle their deck later so that other player doesn't know anymore where the card is.

But if the content of their deck is not changed or been looked at by someone, the deck is still randomized and shuffling it changes nothing. So, using the Vast Wealth to shuffle a deck that is already shuffled is probably stalling and should be penalized.