file First Strike vs. Strike: Combat Ends

08 Feb 2013 08:57 #44980 by wesile
Hum... this is getting overly complicated...

Yes combat is quite nerfed in Vtes. Whats the point of playing 3 or 4 combat cards to have everything killed with S:CE.

If you are playing a straight combat deck the odds are that you will finish trashing the table and not really getting any vp's.

IMO the problem is not first-strike. A vampire should have a limit of the S:CE that he can play per turn, a bit just like On the Qui Vivre. Take it to the "unreal world" and how many combats can you really avoid?

But changing combat at this point will challenge everything that as evolved around VTES deck building rules. Its clearly brings different issues that might not be welcome.

Why not just make more cards like Dog Pack available? - That wont really spoil the current mechanics and give a bit more power to combat decks...

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08 Feb 2013 09:13 #44981 by Ohlmann

Pascal Bertrand wrote: The rules have S:CE resolve before Coma. The rules have S:CE resolve before damage-inflicting strikes.


You lost me.

If we change the rule so that S:CE resolve at the same time as first strike, instead of before, why would they resolve before first strike damage-inflicting strike ?

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08 Feb 2013 09:24 #44984 by Pascal Bertrand

Ohlmann wrote:

Pascal Bertrand wrote: The rules have S:CE resolve before Coma. The rules have S:CE resolve before damage-inflicting strikes.


You lost me.

If we change the rule so that S:CE resolve at the same time as first strike, instead of before, why would they resolve before first strike damage-inflicting strike ?

I think that what has been discussed here isn't about SCE and First Strike resolving simultaneously, but rather having First Strike resolve before SCE.

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08 Feb 2013 09:34 #44985 by Chaitan

Pascal Bertrand wrote: Also, how do you resolve "at the same time" a S:CE (which ends the combat) and something that needs later resolving (damage) ?


I imagine something similar as how Anesthetic Touch work.

i.e. Deal damage. Prevent damage. Other stuff like disarm/pulled fangs. Combat Ends immediately after that.

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08 Feb 2013 09:41 #44986 by Ohlmann

Pascal Bertrand wrote: I think that what has been discussed here isn't about SCE and First Strike resolving simultaneously, but rather having First Strike resolve before SCE.


OK.

My point is, it's not necessary to make first strike happen before S:CE ; it's suffisant to make S:CE simply resolve at the same time, which I believe lead to something simpler, you only have two step instead of four

(and it disallow "first strike S:CE", which is a good thing because I really don't want to see request for first first strike)

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08 Feb 2013 09:49 - 08 Feb 2013 11:53 #44987 by Boris The Blade

Pascal Bertrand wrote: Also, how do you resolve "at the same time" a S:CE (which ends the combat) and something that needs later resolving (damage) ?

That is already a common situation and poses no problem whatsoever. The general rule is that non-damage effects are resolved first, but unless they are performed with first strike, they don't influence the opposing strike.

Strike: burn equipment. If you burn the opponent's weapon without first strike, he still gets to beat you with it, although the weapon is technically burnt before resolving its damage.

I am pretty sure it is the same for strike: steal blood against an ally.

Besides, Combat Ends does not end the combat, it merely fast-forwards it to the end of the round. That is still in the combat, there is still time to resolve the damage. (Yes, the ruling about other effects of S:CE resolving after the combat is bogus too: the damage from Catatonic fear could happen inside the combat without breaking any timing rule).
Last edit: 08 Feb 2013 11:53 by Boris The Blade.

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