question-circle who is the hands down worste 11 cap?

27 Mar 2013 20:09 - 27 Mar 2013 20:10 #46313 by Ohlmann

Boris The Blade wrote: I don't think Elimelech is that bad. He brings a lot of multiaction as a Seraph and he can be be influenced by younger vampires with Reunion Kamut.


I understand the theory. But in practice, I feel it very lacking. He have no vote and no Magic of the smith ; he is too big to be impressive for influencing vampires, and he is pretty bad at rushing, since Telepathic tracking is very expensive against S:CE, while needing setup (read : a flamethrower or assault rifle) to be any good against any serious combat deck.

I have seen it played a lot, but I never seen him shine.

Note that the good use to Reunion Kamut is influencing Elimelech with auspex weenie, not the other way around.
Last edit: 27 Mar 2013 20:10 by Ohlmann.

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27 Mar 2013 20:23 #46315 by Ankha

Ohlmann wrote: I have seen it played a lot, but I never seen him shine

www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2010rr3pf

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27 Mar 2013 22:00 - 27 Mar 2013 22:01 #46320 by Dr.Mafrune

Ohlmann wrote:

Dr.Mafrune wrote: Elimelech can get, wt: four ride forth combined with enkil cog for free multiaction with no fear of archon investigations.
On a malkavian black hand deck he is capable of playing the art of memory and can influence other vampires really fast ( govern, the call, reunion kamut ).


Well, yes, but he is far from being alone to be able to do that, and he is very expensive for such shenanigan compared to other vampires. Blackhorse Tanner or Al-Munthatir work almost as well for multiacting and speed influence, while having worthwhile special or discipline.

I also feel he is vastly overshadowed by Appius Corvius, who is much better at stealth bleeding in my experience, and have The Rake and Saul Meira who share all three discipline and black hand. Saul Meira is also another enabler of Enkil Cog Shenanigan (which are a lot more needed for Appius since he have no natural multiacting)

Dr.Mafrune wrote: Mind rape deck, Flurry of action deck, New Council of Doom, Alastors 4-5, etc.
With his spread of disciplines he can combine with a lot of clans and high cap vampires. 4 Votes and +2 bleed. He is not top notch, but flexible enough to see him in a lot of tournament winning decks. By far does he not belong to the bottom of the elevenths.


That depend on how you class the 11 caps. Nobody have done a Raphael superstar deck ; he have discipline who work well together but he lack an additional ability, or a discipline to make him worthwhile alone. That's sad (and subjective) for an 11-cap.

I could imagine playing Augustus as a main vampire because of his hard to use and silly special, but I don't see any fun or efficient reason to center around.

Of course, you can say he is good because he have classic discipline together. I find he is lacking.




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Last edit: 27 Mar 2013 22:01 by Dr.Mafrune.

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27 Mar 2013 22:47 - 27 Mar 2013 22:47 #46322 by Reyda

Ohlmann wrote: Another possible nominee is Elimelech. Partly because his special is so disconnected from its discipline that it's near impossible to use

man. what you are writing is so irrelevant.
first strike does not combo with protean agg damage ?
first strike does not combo with dementation's coma ?
first strike does not combo with disguised weapon ivory bow or senghir dagger ?

Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
Last edit: 27 Mar 2013 22:47 by Reyda.

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28 Mar 2013 00:15 #46324 by ReverendRevolver
Anyone with obf plus celerity can get the flurry bleed to untap them, and celerity plus animalism is a very high damage potential combo never taken advantage of. So harod> jo. But vanB has the votes, so hes better than augustus, if only barely.

If we were to rank them, i think many people think eliemelech isnt as good as he is, and that shocks me. Imagine if roxanne had some of his specials with her almost identical discilline spread. Trading primogen for first strike would take her far in madness network decks.
I thinm nos IC and augustus is the bottom rung, then hazimel and sutehk, and everyone else is higher, leading to slava, saulot, alexandra, lutz, and hardestadt being tied for second, and Arika being brokenly the best.

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28 Mar 2013 01:04 #46327 by TorranceCircle
Sutekh is not horrible. Not great but also not horrible. Presence, Obfuscate, access to masters like Eternals and Farraille.

I always thought Haszimel wasn't that good either. But he has access to nightmare curse, will-o-the-wisp, and shared nightmare. I've never played him or used these cards but that seems like there has to be something there. He can also, it seems to me, team up nicely with Sha-Ennu.

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