file French National Championship - About Reversale of Fortune and Madness Network

24 Sep 2013 08:02 #54321 by TapeTaChatte
Well, despite the fact that I pretty much agree with your analysis, Vincent, and think that it is stupid to watch people play (but in fact it's stupid the same with other decks imho), your statement of the fact that players don't get to play is false:

- game one, despite the 3/2 losing deal, all players still played their turn and I did not call any reversal of fortunes after the deal was accepted (the reason of the deal at the beginning was that I could not call them on that table)
- game 2, my prey played, my little prey was you and you got to play several turns during that game. I did not offer a turn 2 losing table, that's also a false statement. I offered a losing deal after my prey has had 3 vampires out including Gotsdam (congrats to the guy who found out about him) and Neighbor John. By that time, you also had Giotto Verducci and Lucinde Alastor. You had turns to play and offer me something, like backrushing my prey. Your deck could not do that, thus the reason why I offered a deal (another reason was that my predator was playing stealth/spell of life and I might have been dead in 3 turns).
- game 3 I made a deal with my little prey and we all got to play on the table. My predator missed me for one pool at some point, then for one stealth at some point. My ally broke the madness network cross-tabled, my prey played 50 cards in that game despite not being dealing with me.
- in the finals, I could not play so everybody else could

in the end, I played 4 rounds so 16 opponents against me and they all got at least 2 turns of play:
-> two got two turns
-> one got threee turns
other players could play normally at least five turns

so while I think it is a shame to steal someone's game from him, I think people misinterpret how rare the situation of complete lock is

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24 Sep 2013 08:25 #54322 by Brum
I think the more important question here is: will you go to the EC?
Note that I don't really care what deck you play. ;)

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24 Sep 2013 09:30 #54324 by cordovader

Well, despite the fact that I pretty much agree with your analysis, Vincent, and think that it is stupid to watch people play (but in fact it's stupid the same with other decks imho), your statement of the fact that players don't get to play is false:

- game one, despite the 3/2 losing deal, all players still played their turn and I did not call any reversal of fortunes after the deal was accepted (the reason of the deal at the beginning was that I could not call them on that table)
- game 2, my prey played, my little prey was you and you got to play several turns during that game. I did not offer a turn 2 losing table, that's also a false statement. I offered a losing deal after my prey has had 3 vampires out including Gotsdam (congrats to the guy who found out about him) and Neighbor John. By that time, you also had Giotto Verducci and Lucinde Alastor. You had turns to play and offer me something, like backrushing my prey. Your deck could not do that, thus the reason why I offered a deal (another reason was that my predator was playing stealth/spell of life and I might have been dead in 3 turns).
- game 3 I made a deal with my little prey and we all got to play on the table. My predator missed me for one pool at some point, then for one stealth at some point. My ally broke the madness network cross-tabled, my prey played 50 cards in that game despite not being dealing with me.
- in the finals, I could not play so everybody else could

in the end, I played 4 rounds so 16 opponents against me and they all got at least 2 turns of play:
-> two got two turns
-> one got threee turns
other players could play normally at least five turns

so while I think it is a shame to steal someone's game from him, I think people misinterpret how rare the situation of complete lock is



In fact in round 3 if I remember well my first rush was to one of your vamps with Beast.

Since your prey was more concentrated in ousting me, than dealing to try and eliminate you from the table, my only chance of maximizing my VPs and not doing 0 was dealing with you.

Obviously, if Mattias would have been interested in dealing 3/2 loose with me I would have accepted, but I don't think we wold have managed to arrive at that point since you would be dead before I arrived to be your predator.


It's true that it's a horrible deck to play against, but it's easily stoppable too. +1 intercept or votes on the table end the combo easily.

It was a pleasure playing with you. :)

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24 Sep 2013 09:52 #54325 by Ankha

Well, despite the fact that I pretty much agree with your analysis, Vincent, and think that it is stupid to watch people play (but in fact it's stupid the same with other decks imho), your statement of the fact that players don't get to play is false:

<snip>

in the end, I played 4 rounds so 16 opponents against me and they all got at least 2 turns of play:
-> two got two turns
-> one got threee turns
other players could play normally at least five turns

I consider that playing 2 or 3 turns in a whole game (including the first turns of influence, meaning you'll be able to take 1 or 2 actions in the whole game) whereas 2 players on the table play 12+ turns matches what I said.
Speaking about that second round, I played exactly 3 turns:
- turn 1: Information Highway (lucky me), influence 6 on Lucinde (unfortunately, I didn't have any IC)
- turn 2: Lucinde gets out but too late: one of the Malk is already Justicar
- turn 3: Giotto gets out
That's all. I could have played one action with Lucinde, but unfortunately I didn't have the vote lock. I couldn't rush but I could have banished/taken care of the Madness Reversal's prey. But king-making was safer I suppose.

Other players played also 3 turns. The Madness Reversal's predator influenced out a vampire on turn 1 and got 2 actions. My prey influenced out on turn 2 and played 1 action.
Even if all players were somewhat lucky in their opening hand (Information highway, Wash, Delaying Tactics), the Madness Reversal deck couldn't be disrupted. The only solution would have been a DI on the Sargon Fragment (assuming you don't play a second copy of it).

I consider myself lucky since I managed to cycle many cards thanks to Giotto's ability. Other players could cycle no more than 3 cards through regular discard; it is extremely likely that in those conditions, even a deck that could intercept don't have the time to get what it needs to block.

PS: I don't use "you"/"your" on purpose because it has nothing to do with the player, but only with the abuse of Reversal of Fortune.

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24 Sep 2013 09:56 #54326 by TapeTaChatte

I think the more important question here is: will you go to the EC?
Note that I don't really care what deck you play. ;)


I did not win so I won't come logically

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24 Sep 2013 09:59 #54327 by Ankha

It's true that it's a horrible deck to play against, but it's easily stoppable too. +1 intercept or votes on the table end the combo easily.

You made me laugh. On round 2, there was an intercept deck AND a vote deck. King-making the intercept deck was the only solution. Three players played only 3 turns. This is unacceptable for a 5-player game.

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