Aire of Carnage - more throughput for bruise-bleed

The problem of Fleetness is that its not good at either version. Even if it would be free it still wouldn't be good. Bleed for 1 at stealth is most of the time rather meh, if your playing a rush deck you don't usually need the stealth, +bleed would be lot more useful. And the superior only lets you rush TAPPED vampires, because Ambush sees so much play, right?

That being said, Fleetness could be decent for Ishtarri deck who can get all the +bleed they need from permanents but are rather lacking in the stealth department.

Suoli wrote:

Ashur wrote:

I haven´t read all of the "Is combat weak"-thread, but I notice Brujah bruise-bleed deck seldom win tournaments. Is this worth adressing? I think so.

It should be noted that dom/pot b&b doesn't do much better. If Govern, Conditioning and Deflection doesn't make b&b playable we should probably just accept that b&b is a crap concept and focus on providing rush decks with ousting mechanisms that don't destroy deck consistency.

Bleeds work just fine as ousting mechanism in a rush deck. I have fairly succesful !Brujah rush deck that has 8 legals as quite large portion of its ousting mechanism (in addition to the standard fames, tension, and dragonbound). Got to the finals with it in the last tournament I played, but in the finals got hosed by immune to non-agg allies and temptations (from the same really weird deck).

Well, it all depend on what you call Bruise and bleed. If your plan is, as I often see with dom/pot deck, to bleed, hope to be blocked, and destroy the minion, then it's just a bad plan, since you don't take into account non-blocking defense plan at all.

In a general sense, allies decks tend to be one of the big problem. Allies often need a pretty different plan, have controller that does not usually choke on combat card, and more importantly are dirt cheap compared to equivalent vampires. It's somehow a VTES general flaw, since while fragile individually, their resilience / cost is often pretty good, or even insanely good, and you can't pack too easily 10 anti allies card in your deck.

Klaital wrote:

Bleeds work just fine as ousting mechanism in a rush deck. I have fairly succesful !Brujah rush deck that has 8 legals as quite large portion of its ousting mechanism (in addition to the standard fames, tension, and dragonbound). Got to the finals with it in the last tournament I played, but in the finals got hosed by immune to non-agg allies and temptations (from the same really weird deck).

If you're bleeding with Codex, Andre or Deep Song, yes, bleeds work fine. As for standard bleed cards, I'd like to see more than one such deck reach finals before being convinced.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

And the reason it is never played is that you spend a blood to get a +1 stealth no-other-benefit bleed. If it was a +1 bleed at 0-stealth (like Deep Song) it would see more use. Oh, and Deep Song is FREE... So yeah, Fleetness tends to get left behind. Also like Speed of Thought tends to get left behind...

In a vacuum, I agree, "Deep Song" is better than the above suggested "Fleetness" that "Deep Song" is probably better.

However, if you look at other cards in the same disciplines, and other disciplines that you find combined with that cards disciplines it tells a different story.

The reason "Deep Song" is so strong is because animalism has a very reliable three card combat combo, so having one card that can enter combat or bleed depending on the situation is a godsend. Pair it with Obfuscate or Protean for stealth, and you have a powerhouse.

Celerity by itself is very card intensive as a single discipline, but does work well with potence or guns. Also, it's not often paired with stealth disciplines, so paying one blood for +1 stealth is not so bad. Sure it would be better if it were free, but as a long time Toreador player, I am willing to pay two blood for one stealth.