file [Card ban idea] List

08 Jul 2018 21:07 #88659 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic [Card ban idea] List

ReverendRevolver wrote: stuff stuff stuff

So much this.

New cards please. No bans.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
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08 Jul 2018 22:17 - 08 Jul 2018 22:18 #88661 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic [Card ban idea] List
I disagree with "just print more cards" mentality. It's way easier and healthier to tone down overtuned cards than print basically entire new card set invalidating most former cards. I'll do it on example:

Superfuckin speed
Celerity Combat
:cel: manouver or press or additional strike
:CEL: This round of combat enemy can't strike.

Happy with such balanced cards ? Because it's what Govern is, optimal card in most situations.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
Last edit: 08 Jul 2018 22:18 by Lech.

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09 Jul 2018 02:09 #88662 by Vlad
Replied by Vlad on topic [Card ban idea] List

Kraus wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote: stuff stuff stuff

So much this.

New cards please. No bans.


+1

Pentex Board of Directors

Prince of Oye Plage
Alastor Grand Nord

:gang:

:ani: :cel: :chi: :FOR: :PRO:

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09 Jul 2018 08:11 - 09 Jul 2018 08:12 #88667 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic [Card ban idea] List
I'm not massively in favour of bans or errata, if it can be avoided. But I am totally on board with the idea that some cards are very, very good and it would be worth having options to shake things up a bit.

What I would like where possible is to have cards that are worth playing for their own sake, but also have potential friction points with cards that are very good. My thinking is several fold:

- If the card is just a targeted anti-Deflection or anti-Parity Shift card (or whatever), that's a bit lame
- If you outright ban or heavily errata some very good cards, this makes it harder for older players to get back into the game ("Oh yeah Bob, sorry, you can't really play that Ventrue Law Firm deck you used to like. Deflection is banned, Parity Shift is capped is at 3 pool max, and Govern does something totally different now.")
- Having a card that essentially nukes another strategy from orbit is bad (e.g. I don't like Fall of the Camarilla style cards that just kill a Camarilla deck), but increased friction is good

An example of the sort of thing I've had in my head for a while is:

Overthrow Imminent
Event. Uprising.
Strikes made by anarchs deal +1 damage against Camarilla vampires or titled, non-anarch vampires. Minion cards requiring a title cost an additional blood when played by Camarilla vampires.
Possible burn clause: Burn this card when a titled, non-anarch vampire is burned (including diablerie).

(Note: when a Methuselah is ousted, their cards are removed from the game - not burned.)

So it's something an Anarch deck could (hopefully!) reasonably decide to include one or two copies of, because Camarilla vampires and titled vampires are pretty popular. Cramps on things like Second Tradition, Parity Shift, Third Tradition without nuking them from orbit. Collateral damage? Also hits things like Archon or Anathema which probably don't need the hit - but doesn't fatally cripple them either.


I also thought about putting some of this stuff in events, largely because Masters are too heavily overloaded with cool stuff to do. Other card types seem less relevant, but maybe political actions might be relevant for something. I have a half-formed thought of something that represents some thought of thought-scan. Perhaps an ally, maybe an Akashic mage, a New World Order technomage, or something else with a link to the sphere of Mind.

New World Order Dude
Ally. Mage.
Cost: some pool
Requires: something
Text: Is a worthwhile ally in its own right. When your predator or prey plays a card requiring Dominate, you may tap NWOD to do something (increase the cost?). If you control more than three (or some other number) NWODs during your discard phase, choose three to keep and remove any others you control from the game.
Last edit: 09 Jul 2018 08:12 by jamesatzephyr.

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09 Jul 2018 09:09 #88668 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic [Card ban idea] List
There are as many opinions about the game as there are players. It's quite pointless to just throw at each other "i would like ... " "you understand nothing, I would like ... ".

Game is a system, by changing one element of it you are changing game as a whole.

I would suggest to declare state of the game which is the goal of the changes, that provide suggestions how to reach it.

If, for example, the goal is to make "Renegade Garu" and other overcosted ally decks viable than banning .44 looks really not the first thing to suggest for reaching it. Also it may help to really evaluate, is the goal worth reaching, or if they are contradictory (make combat better / remove possibility of having no game because of no chance to even declare an action).

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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09 Jul 2018 09:29 #88669 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic [Card ban idea] List
My opinion is, that disbalance of some strategies is not a problem for VtES - there are already many more viable tournament archetypes than in any CCG (maybe with one problem - too many :tha: toolboxes :dry: ).

The main problems lies in a possibility of being randomly screwed and loose two hours of your live, overwhelming rules (including hundreds of rulings) complexity and extremely large card pool.

So I got list of suggestions to fix them.

I understand, that somebody may have different view on VtES problems, and got their suggestions to reach it. But then it'll be pointless to discuss suggestions - if we disagree on the final goal that its very unlikely for us to agree on the steps to it.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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