Blitz Round of Playtest Drawing to a Close

echiang wrote:

Secondly, I am always interested in having reasoned discussions....That may explain Jeff's reaction.

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Ouch. I can see how you can very easily read it that way. I honestly meant it as "reasoned" from the point of view of other posters. I mean, I do disagree with the choice of releasing a "competing" set but you have been polite and reasoned in your responses on the forums from what I have seen.

Lemmi, I think we both had a bit of misinterpretation there. Like Eric, I am always in favor of having reasoned discussions. My posts on VEKN.NET, many of them challenging the powers that be, should indicate that.

In the U.S., debate teams frequently participate in "Moot Courts" where a historical legal case is "re-tried" to see whether the teams can derive a different outcome. My response to you calling any such discussion "moot" was intended to use this meaning: the point is still debatable, but the decision has already been made.

Thanks for your clarifications. It is good to see people who seek understanding as their primary goal.

Jeff wrote:

My response to you calling any such discussion "moot" was intended to use this meaning: the point is still debatable, but the decision has already been made.

In that case I, for one, would love to hear your reasoning behind the decision to compete with the official set and campaign against the "powers that be".

i would like to see some sort of understanding be reached in all of this, for the good of the community. i'm not entirely sure which cards of the new set were yours, so i'm not sure how attached i was to them before the split, but regardless of that, this rift isn't a good thing for us as a community.

as i see it now, it would be not out of the question for tournaments with your cards to be ran in a similar way as "as printed" jyhad drafts, where its a real tournament albeit not a ranked one.

as far as actual impact, i'm not psychic, so i suppose only time will tell. i'm an optimist, and i'm not even against your set being released, and i'm glad to see you're getting playtest volunteers, but everything about potential new cards since we went OOP has been some sort of experiment, and with as many variables as there are now, i can't sort anything out and draw conclusions until everything is out.

but arguing over everything doesn't seem likely to stop, and thats really the only thing i dislike in the entire series of discussions.

Squidalot wrote:

Hi Carl/Eric/Jeff,

I would be grateful if you could send me a pdf of your cards so I can understand any comparison questions my playtesters give me.
thanks,
Hugh

Hello Hugh.

I would be in favor of sending you a pdf copy of the PKC set, to help you in your efforts. I'm not going to be making any unilateral decisions, however, so obviously I'd need to talk things over with Carl and Jeff but I think it would be a good idea.

KevinM wrote:

echiang wrote:

Some people believe that all power should be consolidated under VEKN and nothing VTES-related should be allowed without their blessing.

Do you believe anything "official" regarding VTES should be taking place without the approval of the VEKN?

IOW: Do you regard your cards as anything greater than a fan set?

Ashur wrote:

echiang wrote:

In fact, we have repeatedly tried to keep the door open for discussions with VEKN, it's just that they seem to have very little interest in talking to us.

Is that because you are still trying to make some kind of "official set", thereby competing with the VEKN own efforts?

With no active publisher controlling the license, everything is a "fan set" or "fan expansion" at this point.

Hypothetically, if Kevin Mergen and Jeff Thompson wanted to create their own set, then it would also be a "fan set." In fact, I'm sure they would do a very good job. I don't think a Mergen/Lasombra set would have to be "competition" for the PKC project or the "official" VEKN set - they could all exist together and could even complement each other. If Kevin and the Lasombra wanted to submit a separate (third) set, then I would wish them the best of luck and would *want* them to succeed as well. I think it would be very petty to hope that they would fail.

If the hitherto unknown group of Ethiopian VTES players came up with a set, then I would also consider it a fan set.

If LSJ and Steve Wieck got together with Richard Garfield and created a new set, I would also say that it would be a "fan set" since none of them are officially involved with the game any more. And if they wanted to do something like this, they should be free to do so and I think it would be a good thing if they did.

Even the current VEKN set is a fan set (in fact, it was specifically announced as a "fan expansion"), the main difference is that it has the "official VEKN stamp of approval."



In response to Kevin and Ashur's query about "official" stuff related to VTES, that really depends on how you define the term "official."

Kevin and Ashur, how would you define "official?"

"Official" for me is a single governing group/person which says to others what is official. I don't care if the group/person is chosen with arms wrestling competition or The d’Hondt system.