file PKC seeks to attack the V:EKN

28 Sep 2012 00:36 #37924 by blackday
@self biased: Exactly! Which was what i posted in the Guardians of the Faith thread, and if they go to court then they will have their egotistical asses handed to them.
Some of the vamps were taken from the Giovanni Chronicles I Last Supper and has been WW canon since that book came out (eg. Lady Jadviga Almanova,Lord Mieczyslav,Matron Violetta 6th gen NPC's) from Transylvania Chronicles (Tiberiu the messenger 10th gen Gangrel, Arnulf the Beast 6th gen Gangrel sire of Mitru the Hunter), Parovich (Chicago Chronicles elder, 7th gen primogen in Milwaukee) from Iberia by Night and Veil of Night (Badr,8th gen), Maria Sandoza (Nights of Prophecy), Cedilia the Tongue (Montreal by Night)Pamela Ford (11th gen,Storyteller's Handbook of the Sabbat),Piotr Krezhinsky (8th gen childer of Darvag, the butcher of Rus; Transylvania Chronicles).
Need i say more.

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28 Sep 2012 05:24 #37927 by Squidalot
no but that that's a healthy overview of canon you have there i hope you get yourself on a vekn playtest team...

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28 Sep 2012 06:16 #37931 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic PKC seeks to attack the V:EKN
Dear PCK - three questions:

1. What _exactly_ are you trying to accomplish with this?
2. Do you have any idea how this make you look?
3. Is it worth it?

"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, DTA

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28 Sep 2012 09:36 - 28 Sep 2012 09:42 #37942 by Surreal

Ashur wrote: Dear PCK - three questions:

1. What _exactly_ are you trying to accomplish with this?
2. Do you have any idea how this make you look?
3. Is it worth it?


I am wondering the same. I can understand the argue between PKC and Vekn. I could even understand PKC releasing their own set (which many players didnt even like so much).

But this "lawsuit" just blows my mind. I really can't think of any other reason for this than trying to be a dick and try to harm the whole Vtes as much as possible. I would like to hear how this thing benefits Vtes and me as a normal player. I don't care about power struggles and drama so much.
Last edit: 28 Sep 2012 09:42 by Surreal.

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28 Sep 2012 10:08 #37946 by dude_PL
ok the last few pages were fun, let's go on :) and btw. since we started using the "F" words more frequently, I'm not going to stop myself either :)

Anyway...

1. I happen to be a free thinker, therefore I will support whoever I choose to and I will reserve the right to change my mind whenever I choose to, thank you very much.

2. What some of you consider "support" is actually me trying to stay objective (it is hard, I admit that), simply because I don't have enough data to choose sides. However, just by following my gut and considering the fact that the VEKN treats secrecy as a tool of convenience (ie. we won't tell because it's a secret - when it can harm us, but we'll disclose private emails whenever that suits our cause) naturally my point of view on this issue is as it is. So - while I openly admit of being sympathetic towards the PCK - this is not a support of what PCK does, this is the lack of support of what the VEKN does. Just so we're clear. If the VEKN ever chooses to stop being selectively secretive, I might actually change my mind.

3. I strongly believe that nobody will sue anybody over anything. This is a fan organization in conflict with other fans developing a fan set, no lawyer with the right mind would give a fuck - the only thing that can happen is somebody recruits the lawyer to the game after listening to the explanations of what VTES and VEKN are (after they stop laughing at this "issue", that is). No potential investor / publisher will give a fuck either, as they can simply ignore everything they don't like (they're investing in the product because they have a target that will buy it, that is the only reason).
Nobody is going to destroy the game, the VEKN etc. What we see is a power play combined with an ego issue, which is even more ironic, since this is not a business, there's no money involved and - I'll say it again - nobody outside of this forum gives a fuck about this anyway.

4. I said it once, I will say it again - the communication between the VEKN and its members is pathetic. The OP is a very good example - the title is the verdict at the same time, and then we get one sentence that graciously allows us to build our own opinion. Apparently somebody's been reading The Sun (or other crap newspapers in your country) too much...

5. Ignorance + fear = hatred. Think about this next time before you post (this is to all the hate speech folks). The truth is that we know shit about what's really going on, because it's a "secret", until it becomes convenient not to make it a secret anymore. I'm not posting because I praise what PCK does, I'm posting because I don't like the direction the VEKN is going. At all.

6. Finally, my favourite part - banning people from the VEKN and the tournaments. Really? I mean seriously - do you really want to go there? Let's think about this for a moment, shall we?
What is your authority to ban anyone? On what basis? Who gave you the right to forbid people playing the game they love and have been playing for more than 10 years? How are you planning to execute that? Penalize those guys who allowed the banned people to attend the tournament? Any other bright ideas?

Let's go further - ban me, just for the fun of it. After the players in my country stop laughing their asses off, they will show you the middle finger, simple as that. You really have to face the fact that you have close to no authority outside of this forum and the majority of the global playerbase doesn't even come here. They simply don't care - all they want is to play the game they love, with their friends, for as long as it is still possible. So I wouldn't really go into the legitimacy and authority talks if I were you. Additionally, as it was mentioned in this topic, this forum is getting so bad (mostly because of constant battles and petty games that help absolutely noone) that people are reluctant to recommend it to other players in their playgroups. Think about that during your next power struggle.

So the only nuisance left in the banning issue is the EC, since if I'm banned, I can't attend it. If you banned PCK last year, I would still welcome them to the EC in Warsaw, because in the end it is the organizer's decision. I don't think that the guys from Hungary will be extremely happy that you forbid certain players to attend their tournament and spend money on games / hotels / food / partying and having awesome time.

So to sum it up...
I don't give a flying fuck if you like me, agree with me and what not. All I care about is the future of the game I've devoted 16 years of my life to. The fact that group A can't talk with group B is not my problem. Therefore, I want you to stay the fuck away with your drama. Keep it to yourselves and while you're at it - do your job.

This game will not die because of PCK or VEKN. This game dies when the community dies. Sadly, I have the impression that this will be the only "success" we will see in the near future.

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28 Sep 2012 10:36 #37950 by johannes

dude_PL wrote: 2. What some of you consider "support" is actually me trying to stay objective (it is hard, I admit that), simply because I don't have enough data to choose sides. However, just by following my gut and considering the fact that the VEKN treats secrecy as a tool of convenience (ie. we won't tell because it's a secret - when it can harm us, but we'll disclose private emails whenever that suits our cause) naturally my point of view on this issue is as it is. So - while I openly admit of being sympathetic towards the PCK - this is not a support of what PCK does, this is the lack of support of what the VEKN does. Just so we're clear. If the VEKN ever chooses to stop being selectively secretive, I might actually change my mind.


I think your assessment is incorrect. Since the whole drama started publicly I have made every communication between them and us that followed public. The only thing that remained private is the hundreds of pages the preceded those events. This is not out of manipulative considerations, this is because of practical reasons (it would take hours to post) and because generally the assumption back then was it was private and I am not going to breach it.

dude_PL wrote: 4. I said it once, I will say it again - the communication between the VEKN and its members is pathetic. The OP is a very good example - the title is the verdict at the same time, and then we get one sentence that graciously allows us to build our own opinion. Apparently somebody's been reading The Sun (or other crap newspapers in your country) too much...


I call bullshit on this. The title is not a verdict. A cease&desist is an attack, period. I did not speculate on reasons, I did not even judge it. Just stating facts. Later I said "there is no apparent reason I can see apart from revenge", and that stands until there is some actual reply from them.

dude_PL wrote: 5. Ignorance + fear = hatred. Think about this next time before you post (this is to all the hate speech folks). The truth is that we know shit about what's really going on, because it's a "secret", until it becomes convenient not to make it a secret anymore. I'm not posting because I praise what PCK does, I'm posting because I don't like the direction the VEKN is going. At all.


If you don´t like it, why did you not offer to participate and change for your direction of thinking? Complaining is easy, doing is hard.

dude_PL wrote: 6. Finally, my favourite part - banning people from the VEKN and the tournaments. Really? I mean seriously - do you really want to go there? Let's think about this for a moment, shall we?
What is your authority to ban anyone? On what basis? Who gave you the right to forbid people playing the game they love and have been playing for more than 10 years? How are you planning to execute that? Penalize those guys who allowed the banned people to attend the tournament? Any other bright ideas?


I call bullshit again. Nobody from the VEKN suggested this. Some players suggested this, I do not second this notion at all. Not ever did any VEKN official suggest anything close to it.

dude_PL wrote: I don't give a flying fuck if you like me, agree with me and what not. All I care about is the future of the game I've devoted 16 years of my life to. The fact that group A can't talk with group B is not my problem. Therefore, I want you to stay the fuck away with your drama. Keep it to yourselves and while you're at it - do your job.

This game will not die because of PCK or VEKN. This game dies when the community dies. Sadly, I have the impression that this will be the only "success" we will see in the near future.


If you care about a community you should give consideration if people like you and agree with you. I would say that without a general default setting of liking each other and agreeing on a minimum number of points a community can not exist. I state again: apart from removing them from the Design Team after it went dysfunctional we did no action that might seem hostile towards them. Yet, they continue to do them towards us. Looks pretty one-sided to me.
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