file PKC seeks to attack the V:EKN

28 Sep 2012 16:20 #37987 by KevinM

dude_PL wrote: 5The truth is that we know shit about what's really going on, because it's a "secret", until it becomes convenient not to make it a secret anymore.

Everything that I have stated has been in response to all public material. I'm not part of the Design Team nor of VEKN.

I know plenty because I've been involved in many public discussions regarding the PCK issue and I pay attention to the layered behavior of the persons involved.

One could say mistakes were made on both sides but one could NOT say that both sides have been rotten lying bastards. Only one side fits that definition.

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
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you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
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28 Sep 2012 19:28 #38001 by Jeff Kuta

Daidalos wrote: Of course the PCK have the best intentions. Of course there's nothing to worry about. Or not? We could really use some reaction from you guys (PCK). Tell us what you want to do. Or does it mean so little to you? Tell us and stop the speculations.


Many people have asked what we want. I think we have been very clear
about this throughout.

In April we asked that the V:EKN not use our cards. In early September, we published our set, Guardians of the Faith, under Creative Commons. Shortly
thereafter, Johannes posted several instances where a reasonable person could infer that our original request was not being heeded. Furthermore, Johannes posted that he, personally, was in negotiations to sell print-on-demand V:TES cards--possibly including ours, inferred by his comments--for profit. Therefore, we needed to make a more official statement to the V:EKN.

A cease and desist letter is *not* an attack. It is an official document that is needed to protect intellectual property from being infringed upon. The last few lines of the letter state what we want and are not ambiguous.

The V:TES community can judge the wisdom of posting such a document
publicly by either party.

When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike.
:CEL::DOM::OBF::POT::QUI:
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28 Sep 2012 20:22 #38003 by echiang
We readily acknowledge that Hasbro (formerly Wizards of the Coast) and CCP (formerly White Wolf) have relevant copyrights. We are not trying to claim any of their intellectual property. We stated this in the Guardians of the Faith set release announcement. Our focus is on our creative interpretation of the source material. The V:EKN is also free to come up with their own creative interpretation of the source material as well. The issue is whether theirs just happens to be substantially similar to ours.


Back in April, we asked the V:EKN to not use any of our cards without our explicit permission. They never asked for our permission. We did not grant explicit permission other than the six storyline cards. Here's a simple question for the V:EKN now:

Johannes, from April 2012 to September 2012, did the V:EKN use any of our "original ideas" without our explicit permission?

If the answer to the above question is “No,” then the whole situation is moot. We're only concerned with our work, so if you haven't been using our work, then there's no conflict.

However, your September statement referred to some "minor things" that needed to be corrected. There were also several public posts about Guardians of the Faith by playtesters which alluded to numerous similarities to the V:EKN set. We have been quite transparent about the contents of our set, making it available to V:EKN affiliates and some members of the V:EKN Inner Circle. The V:EKN, understandably, has been much more opaque about their set. As a result, we don't know exactly what they've been playtesting or what they plan to publish.

If the answer to the above question is “Yes,” then the V:EKN has been using our "original ideas" even after we asked them not to. As such, I think it would be logical for us to be wary about further assurances from the V:EKN, especially given the information asymmetry.

As others have noted, if the V:EKN was not using our work then our cease and desist letter is irrelevant. It would be a complete non-issue. So the fact that Johannes has made it such a big deal appears to legitimize our concerns about whether the V:EKN has been or is still using our work.


We have repeatedly tried to communicate with the V:EKN and the Inner Circle:

- Before Jeff's whistleblower post in February, there were multiple attempts to communicate with Johannes but he was repeatedly non-responsive.

- Before Carl and Eric's resignation in April, there were multiple attempts to communicate with Johannes but he was repeatedly non-responsive.

- Since April we tried other avenues of communication to no avail. Not once did the V:EKN try to initiate a conversation with us during this period to talk about the possible use of our cards.

- In August, we offered the V:EKN the opportunity to sanction our set. About a month later, we still have not received an official response.

Throughout our numerous attempts to communicate with Johannes and the Inner Circle, the two most common results have been either no response at all or a knee-jerk reaction, sometimes in public, sometimes in private.

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28 Sep 2012 20:23 #38004 by johannes

Jeff Kuta wrote: In April we asked that the V:EKN not use our cards. In early September, we published our set, Guardians of the Faith, under Creative Commons. Shortly
thereafter, Johannes posted several instances where a reasonable person could infer that our original request was not being heeded.


Maybe you live in a parallel universum very similar but slightly different to ours. Because in reality I said we will not use any of your original ideas. Original ideas make up intellectual property. So no need to protect IP that I explicitly said we are not going to use.

Even if you suspected anything different you could have very well waited until it was clear what the final set is going to look like.

While we are at the subject, did you ask for permission to use IP from other people? The cards you published (remember: we did not publish anything) contain IP which was created by Pascal, Ben and others. Did we ever even raise the subject before? No, because we are not interested in continuing this harmful and useless conflict. I suggest you start being reasonable.
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28 Sep 2012 20:25 #38005 by echiang

johannes wrote:

Jeff Kuta wrote: In April we asked that the V:EKN not use our cards. In early September, we published our set, Guardians of the Faith, under Creative Commons. Shortly
thereafter, Johannes posted several instances where a reasonable person could infer that our original request was not being heeded.


Maybe you live in a parallel universum very similar but slightly different to ours. Because in reality I said we will not use any of your original ideas. Original ideas make up intellectual property. So no need to protect IP that I explicitly said we are not going to use.


Johannes, from April 2012 to September 2012, did the V:EKN use any of our "original ideas" without our explicit permission?

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28 Sep 2012 20:32 #38006 by self biased

Jeff Kuta wrote:

Daidalos wrote: Of course the PCK have the best intentions. Of course there's nothing to worry about. Or not? We could really use some reaction from you guys (PCK). Tell us what you want to do. Or does it mean so little to you? Tell us and stop the speculations.


Many people have asked what we want. I think we have been very clear
about this throughout.

In April we asked that the V:EKN not use our cards. In early September, we published our set, Guardians of the Faith, under Creative Commons. Shortly
thereafter, Johannes posted several instances where a reasonable person could infer that our original request was not being heeded. Furthermore, Johannes posted that he, personally, was in negotiations to sell print-on-demand V:TES cards--possibly including ours, inferred by his comments--for profit. Therefore, we needed to make a more official statement to the V:EKN.

A cease and desist letter is *not* an attack. It is an official document that is needed to protect intellectual property from being infringed upon. The last few lines of the letter state what we want and are not ambiguous.

The V:TES community can judge the wisdom of posting such a document
publicly by either party.


so the entire grounds of your C&D letter are based on what you think is going on? that's what infer means, dude.

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