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  7. What if VTES was rebooted into an incompatible 2.0 version?

file What if VTES was rebooted into an incompatible 2.0 version?

02 Apr 2016 21:32 - 02 Apr 2016 21:33 #76214 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic What if VTES was rebooted into an incompatible 2.0 version?

Of course it thrives at the moment, new version of the game with just a few expansions.

Wait for a year or so when there has been a pile of expansions released. The numbers will start declining.


I think you missed my point. My point was that reboot into an incompatible version didn't kill GoT card game, contrary what many on these forums seem to fear would happen to VTES. And unlike netrunner, there was basically no time gap between old GoT and new GoT. It was rebooted while old version was still being played actively.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
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Last edit: 02 Apr 2016 21:33 by Bloodartist.
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03 Apr 2016 05:00 #76216 by Juggernaut1981
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic What if VTES was rebooted into an incompatible 2.0 version?

Oh, this "funny" "discussion" again ...

Do Hasbro own the Potence Symbol? Do they own the Action Symbol? Do they own the rule book as written? Do they own the card art on Francois/Ur-Shulgi/Sutekh/etc? Do they own the back of the cards? Do they own the Trisnake? Do they own the "Turn Sequence"?


No, Hasbro don´t own any of this, to my knowledge. WWP own all IP... Should there be any legal difficulties, I am sure WWP can sort that out with Hasbro. Or at least there are no reason for VEKN to think otherwise.

Actually my entire point is... even if WWP/Paradox do own all the IP, it might be in Hasbro's interest to act as if they do, throw money into a long and expensive lawsuit to try bleed a nice fat settlement out of WWP/Paradox.

Plus, to go with your assertion, if all the relevant IP was with WWP... why was a license needed to be negotiated between Hasbro and CCP in the first place? If there isn't a Hasbro link, or a veiled Hasbro threat, why does it need to be negotiated? It implies that WWP lacked some IP rights...

Also, got it in writing somewhere who owns what? I don't know if Paradox do, I doubt they'd tell us exactly which IP they got when they bought WWP. I know Hasbro wouldn't, because they have got a reason to keep it secret to act as a bluff/threat to effectively extort royalties.

So we get back to the problem of... Why was CCP feeling the need to appease Hasbro?

VTES 2.0 removes that problem. Hasbro does not need to be appeased, because Hasbro would have no rights to the new IP.

Plus, as I said earlier, VTES 2.0 allows for a global rebuild of the rules to make them more functional and less dependent on Rulings and/or the CCR/DPS.
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03 Apr 2016 07:54 #76217 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic What if VTES was rebooted into an incompatible 2.0 version?

Based on how the 1st edition moved and how the 2nd edition is now moving I got to say that it has had a VERY strong start, second only the Android Netrunner. Moving about 10x better than the 1st edition was during its last year.


Interesting. Will try to dig deeper.
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03 Apr 2016 14:59 #76219 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic What if VTES was rebooted into an incompatible 2.0 version?

Hmm, thing is, if Paradox opts for an incompatible VTES 2.0, which basically is a new game that looks like VTES 1.0 but is not VTES 1.0, then there's no change to the state of VTES 1.0.

So the next question is twofold. Would Paradox allow VEKN to continue releasing VTES 1.0 PDF sets and if so, would VEKN still be willing to create VTES 1.0 sets and promote VTES 1.0 as it does now. Or will VEKN simply move on to promoting VTES 2.0 and leave VTES 1.0 to rot and die off?


As I said, I don´t see how VTES continuing could be compatible with WWP wanting to unite their new WoD setting. But NO, as I said. VEKN is a an organization for promoting VTES, so I don´t see how it could "leave VTES 1.0" to rot. A new organization will likely form to promote a game that is not VTES.
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03 Apr 2016 15:06 #76220 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic What if VTES was rebooted into an incompatible 2.0 version?

Can't find out a better source atm, but MTGsalvation has this:

When Magic was first designed, Wizards of the Coast had plans for a series of trading card games. To group these games together, they were all given the name "Deckmaster". Magic, Jyhad (renamed Vampire: the Eternal Struggle), Netrunner and BattleTech were all Deckmaster games. Wizards of the Coast eventually abandoned this method of grouping their trading card games, but the Magic card back is locked so the Deckmaster logo remains.


Yes, I am very aware of this, as I played all four games back when they were launched (although I´m not sure Battletech was a Deckmaster game, at least the logo was not on the cardbacks).

I guess 'deckmaster' logo is property of wizards of the coast. This would only matter if we wanted to use the old cards in the new game though.


If we wanted to use the old card backs, yes. I do not see "Deckmaster" today as being anything else than that logo.
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03 Apr 2016 15:23 #76221 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic What if VTES was rebooted into an incompatible 2.0 version?

Actually my entire point is... even if WWP/Paradox do own all the IP, it might be in Hasbro's interest to act as if they do, throw money into a long and expensive lawsuit to try bleed a nice fat settlement out of WWP/Paradox.


Yes, this is of course a risk. That´s why it would be ideal to know what actually is the case concerning all IP/patents/icons/stuff before launching a reprint/reboot/relaunch/whatever. I am sure WWP feels the same way.

Plus, to go with your assertion, if all the relevant IP was with WWP... why was a license needed to be negotiated between Hasbro and CCP in the first place? If there isn't a Hasbro link, or a veiled Hasbro threat, why does it need to be negotiated? It implies that WWP lacked some IP rights...


The old WotC game mechanic was in a US patent that expired 2015. Also, some people say that there are some uncertainties concerning the icons in the game, but I haven´t yet seen that in print. Being forced to change all symbols would be VERY BAD for a continued VTES, maybe enough to kill the game.

Also, got it in writing somewhere who owns what? I don't know if Paradox do, I doubt they'd tell us exactly which IP they got when they bought WWP. I know Hasbro wouldn't, because they have got a reason to keep it secret to act as a bluff/threat to effectively extort royalties.


Of course it would be great if VEKN to work to get this cleared if the organization should continue to be involved in playtesting, running tournaments and promoting VTES.

So we get back to the problem of... Why was CCP feeling the need to appease Hasbro?

VTES 2.0 removes that problem. Hasbro does not need to be appeased, because Hasbro would have no rights to the new IP.

Plus, as I said earlier, VTES 2.0 allows for a global rebuild of the rules to make them more functional and less dependent on Rulings and/or the CCR/DPS.

Personally I don´t have much problems with the rules, and I think it´s very unnecessary for a faction of players to work against a continuance of VTES (more or less "as is" but with a "rules overhaul) in favor for new VTES-inspired game. Everyone (you! me! anyone!) is free to pitch a new game to WWP - if they find you´re idea better than a continued VTES, a continued VTES will most likely be made impossible. If that´s the case, so be it.
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