file How I would relaunch V:TES (card reprint)

22 Feb 2017 11:55 #80792 by elotar
It's kind of a hard work in itself to find, which cards are fun for different types of players.

Fast reaction can be trashed OK, I think. It really is bad.

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22 Feb 2017 14:59 - 22 Feb 2017 15:01 #80793 by Ankha
Protean
Protean is a great delivery discipline. It does little by itself, but works in synergy with other disciplines.
Protean has some big issues:
- it's not well-spread
- it's usually found with Animalism and Fortitude that aren't ousting disciplines. Animalism works better alone.
The big pros are:
- cards all very cheap in blood
- they are very polyvalent

Kept as is
  • Body Flare: not a great card, but it has a cool wow effect when played
  • Carrion Coffin: a staple card in Protean combat
  • Dual Form: a bad card in my opinion, but that is fun to play (until you realize it's really bad)
  • Earth Control: a great delivery card
  • Earth Meld: a staple card
  • Flesh of Marble: a staple card
  • Form of Mist: a staple card
  • Form of the Ghost: not a staple card, but a simple, useful card
  • Homunculus: a great card for star vampires
  • Loki's Gift: a fun card
  • Mantle of the Bestial Majesty: not a great card, but is played
  • Rapid Change: a good, polyvalent card

Changed
  • Shadow of the Beast: should be a +1 stealth action

Not kept
  • Adaptability: the card is very situational because you need your opponent to deal aggravated damage. Skin of Night is far better when the vampire has also access to Fortitude (that is: most of the time)
  • Body of Sun: has a wow effect like Body Flare, but probably because people are laughing at you (before playing their S:CE)
  • Bone Spur: not a bad card, but a bit redundant with Claws of the Dead that is more useful
  • Carrion Coffin: a weak copy of Homunculus
  • Dissolution: like a Flash, but costs 1 blood. There is always a better card than that one if you need a press or maneuver
  • Eyes of the Beast: not worth a slot, if you really need intercept, there are better Animalism cards
  • Gleam of Red Eyes: slightly redundant with Form of the Ghost. Maneuvers are more useful than presses anyway.
  • Horrific Countenance: the cost is too high
  • Movement of the Slow Body: the card isn't played
  • Mythic Form: the card isn't played
  • Quick Meld: the card isn't played
  • Shadow of the Wolf: a weak, expensive card with a unnatural effect (before range, will give an additional and a strength bonus on that additional, but not on the first pair of strikes?)
  • Shape Mastery: a terrible silver-bullet card against rare disciplines
  • Sonar: same as Eyes of the Beast
  • Uncontrollable Rage: costly card with a weak effect that is redundant with better cards such as Claws of the Dead
  • Wolf Claws: redundant with Claws of the Dead

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Last edit: 22 Feb 2017 15:01 by Ankha.

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22 Feb 2017 16:06 #80797 by Ankha
Celerity
A combat discipline with some minor effects related (thematically) with speed.
It's hard to sort combat cards because usually they ALL can be useful, so I expect people not to agree with some of my choices
- additional
- maneuver / press / restart combat
- "go fast" (can be untap, ditching cards, getting light intercept or stealth)


Kept as is
  • Blur: a staple card
  • Fast Hands: a cool card
  • Flash: a polyvalent, free card
  • Flash: a useful rush-at-stealth card
  • Flurry of Action: a polyvalent card that fits the theme
  • Infernal Pursuit: a combat card that fits the "go fast" theme
  • Psyche!: a staple card
  • Pursuit: a staple card
  • Quickness: not much played, but fun in some decks
  • Resist Earth's Grasp: a good, polyvalent card
  • Rooftop Shadow: fun card
  • Side Strike: not a great card, but played
  • Sideslip: a staple card
  • Stutter-Step: a good, useful card
  • Torrent: not a great card, but fits a niche
  • Zephyr: a nice card in some decks, fits a niche

Changed

Not kept
  • Acrobatics: not a bad card, but if you really want to dodge + strike, it's better to play 2 cards that can do other things, or play cards that have a similar effect such as Stutter-Step or Dust up
  • Alacrity: too expensive, replaced by Resist Earth's Grasp for its costs and polyvalence
  • Backstab: crappy card
  • Cat Burglary: a weak card with a useless superior effect
  • Distraction: only usable in turbo decks, redundant with Infernal Pursuit and Flurry of Action if you really need to cycle
  • Lightning Reflexes: too expensive compared to Blur, and rather unintuitive (pay 1 then X more to get X additionals)
  • Mercury's Arrow: a bad mimic of Thrown Gate / Thrown Sewer Lid
  • Nimble Feet: never played, redundant with Pursuit
  • Precision: crappy card
  • Preternatural Evasion: never played
  • Projectile: bad card
  • Rapid Thought: crappy card
  • Riposte: "not usable on the first round", crappy
  • Sanguinary Wind: crappy card
  • Savannah Runner: I'm not a big fan of sect requirement for cards that already require a Discipline. Not useful.
  • Speed of Thought: weak card
  • Vampiric Speed: crappy card

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22 Feb 2017 17:51 #80800 by AaronC

Ankha wrote: Protean
Protean is a great delivery discipline. It does little by itself, but works in synergy with other disciplines.
Protean has some big issues:
- it's not well-spread
- it's usually found with Animalism and Fortitude that aren't ousting disciplines. Animalism works better alone.
The big pros are:
- cards all very cheap in blood
- they are very polyvalent

Kept as is

  • Body Flare: not a great card, but it has a cool wow effect when played
  • Carrion Coffin: a staple card in Protean combat
  • Dual Form: a bad card in my opinion, but that is fun to play (until you realize it's really bad)
  • Earth Control: a great delivery card
  • Earth Meld: a staple card
  • Flesh of Marble: a staple card
  • Form of Mist: a staple card
  • Form of the Ghost: not a staple card, but a simple, useful card
  • Homunculus: a great card for star vampires
  • Loki's Gift: a fun card
  • Mantle of the Bestial Majesty: not a great card, but is played
  • Rapid Change: a good, polyvalent card

Changed
  • Shadow of the Beast: should be a +1 stealth action

Not kept
  • Adaptability: the card is very situational because you need your opponent to deal aggravated damage. Skin of Night is far better when the vampire has also access to Fortitude (that is: most of the time)
  • Body of Sun: has a wow effect like Body Flare, but probably because people are laughing at you (before playing their S:CE)
  • Bone Spur: not a bad card, but a bit redundant with Claws of the Dead that is more useful
  • Carrion Coffin: a weak copy of Homunculus
  • Dissolution: like a Flash, but costs 1 blood. There is always a better card than that one if you need a press or maneuver
  • Eyes of the Beast: not worth a slot, if you really need intercept, there are better Animalism cards
  • Gleam of Red Eyes: slightly redundant with Form of the Ghost. Maneuvers are more useful than presses anyway.
  • Horrific Countenance: the cost is too high
  • Movement of the Slow Body: the card isn't played
  • Mythic Form: the card isn't played
  • Quick Meld: the card isn't played
  • Shadow of the Wolf: a weak, expensive card with a unnatural effect (before range, will give an additional and a strength bonus on that additional, but not on the first pair of strikes?)
  • Shape Mastery: a terrible silver-bullet card against rare disciplines
  • Sonar: same as Eyes of the Beast
  • Uncontrollable Rage: costly card with a weak effect that is redundant with better cards such as Claws of the Dead
  • Wolf Claws: redundant with Claws of the Dead


Protean as a delivery discipline is not very useful because, as you say, Animalism and Fortitude are not ousting disciplines. Protean should give combat, stealth, and *intercept* to fully complement the Gangrel's other disciplines.

In the Jyhad set, Richard Garfield lost an opportunity to make the Gangrel the premium intercept/combat class. Cards like Sonar and Eyes of the Beast aren't great, but such cards should always have been part of the Gangrel package. Gleam of Red Eyes is the Level 1 Protean ability in the RPG and by concept it should have been an intercept card.

If you relaunch VTES, consider how the Gangrel class can be as good as the other classes. Protean should be designed to complement Animalism's intercept options so that the Gangrel's combat can have a strong impact on the table.

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22 Feb 2017 21:22 #80804 by Ankha

AaronC wrote: Protean as a delivery discipline is not very useful because, as you say, Animalism and Fortitude are not ousting disciplines. Protean should give combat, stealth, and *intercept* to fully complement the Gangrel's other disciplines.

In the Jyhad set, Richard Garfield lost an opportunity to make the Gangrel the premium intercept/combat class. Cards like Sonar and Eyes of the Beast aren't great, but such cards should always have been part of the Gangrel package. Gleam of Red Eyes is the Level 1 Protean ability in the RPG and by concept it should have been an intercept card.

If you relaunch VTES, consider how the Gangrel class can be as good as the other classes. Protean should be designed to complement Animalism's intercept options so that the Gangrel's combat can have a strong impact on the table.


Another option I was thinking of when freeing slots for new Protean cards was to give them something different, something unique, rather than something they already have access to (intercept for instance).

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24 Feb 2017 21:56 #80841 by Vlad
I believe your first mention of Carrion Coffin was supposed to be Claws of the Dead ;)

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