file How I would relaunch V:TES (card reprint)

25 Feb 2017 10:37 #80848 by Azel

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Azel wrote: Frantic Phone Tree
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1 blood
:cel: Only usable when you are being bled, after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another Methuselah other than the controller of the acting minion. The acting minion is now bleeding that Methuselah.
:CEL: As above, and reduce the bleed by 1.


The [CEL] version seems... unlikely. Why would you want your prey to take 1 less pool damage? Why not just play it at [cel]? The circumstances in which you'd volunteer to harm the new target less seem pretty rare, short-changing the vampire with [CEL] somewhat.


It's ultimately very situational, such as Kindred Spirits deck trying to bleed upstream and the like. But, in the end does the [CEL] superior really even matter? The point of the card is to have [cel] basic equal [dom] basic -- and yet still have the card be "objectively" weaker than the dominate card so people's sacred cows can be safe.

There's literally no excuse a card like this hasn't been vying for Deflection's basic parity for twenty years now. The superior can freely explore lateral power dimension as designers see fit. (And given their exceedingly cautious history, I'm gonna assume it'll be something more situational and weaker.) It's an overdue progression to the game.

So, good point, but don't read into it more "oomph!" than necessary. :)

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31 Mar 2017 14:44 #81247 by Ankha
Animalism
A combat/intercept discipline, with many animal allies or retainers. Also the discipline of the "inner beast" inside each vampire.

Kept as is
  • Aid from Bats: the staple combat card for Animalism. Has its downside (you won't maneuver more than once) but a strong synergy with Carrion Crows.
  • Army of Rats: an interesting card
  • Canine Horde: a staple card
  • Carrion Crows: a staple card
  • Cats' Guidance: intercept or untap, a staple card
  • Deep Song: A tad too strong, completely outshines Bum's Rush
  • Drawing Out the Beast: I'm not a big fan, but some players like it. Fits the theme anyway.
  • Guard Dogs: good, but never as good as a plain wake
  • Murder of Crows: not a fantastic card, but fits the theme
  • Owl Companion: a great card
  • Pack Alpha: goes well with the animal retainer theme
  • Raven Spy: a staple card
  • Sense the Savage Way: a good card
  • Terror Frenzy: different enough from Drawing Out the Beast to keep both
  • Tier of Souls: a nice card
  • Underbridge Stray: woof waf wuf wuf


Not kept:
  • Bestial Vengeance: it's cumulative with a Carrion Crows, but requires a Laibon and a retainer. It's still redundant.
  • Flesh Bond: doesn't fit the theme
  • Raptor: a boring, time-consuming card
  • Rat's Warning: see Guard Dogs. A press is less useful than a maneuver.
  • Scorpion Sting: pretty useless
  • Instinctive Reaction: a weak card
  • Shepherd's Innocence: could be fun, but it's rarely useful, and if it does, it's completely unbalanced
  • Song in the Dark: bad execution
  • Song of Serenity: crappy card
  • Tainted Spring: like Forger's Hammer, it's too complicated to make it work (it would be better if you could play it any time during the action).
  • Taunt the Caged Beast: more balanced than deep song, but the superior is pretty useless
  • Trainer: useless card
  • Wolf Companion: a useless card

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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31 Mar 2017 15:07 - 31 Mar 2017 15:13 #81248 by TwoRazorReign

Ankha wrote:

  • Deep Song: A tad too strong, completely outshines Bum's Rush

  • Uh, yeah. Bum's rush doesn't require a discipline, so Deep Song should outshine it. Not sure how this makes Deep Song too strong. Are you speaking in the specific context of making animalism combat too strong? If yes, then I submit to you the myriad frenzy card cancellation or immunity effects that exist to foil this extremely common combat archetype that's usually paired with Deep Song.
    Last edit: 31 Mar 2017 15:13 by TwoRazorReign.

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    31 Mar 2017 15:46 #81249 by ICL
    Deep Song and Bum's Rush are not comparable cards. Bum's Rush doesn't offer an option to bleed, nevermind an option to bleed for +1. Would be an interesting card, though, to have a disciplineless, modest requirement, completely outclassed by Deep Song Deep Song.

    Aggravated Assault
    Action
    Requires a vampire of Capacity 5 or higher.
    Do not replace until after this action.
    (D) Enter combat with a ready minion controlled by another Methuselah.
    <or>
    (D) Bleed.

    Probably a multirush deck card, but it does mean you can run a vast quantity and choke somewhat less.

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    31 Mar 2017 16:49 #81250 by TwoRazorReign
    Love this idea. It has the added bonus of teaching new players how to win in VTES. A card like Bum's Rush does nothing to stop new players from attacking the "wrong" minions and helping another player win. The unspoken great thing about Deep Song (and the proposed disciplineless card) is that, with inclusion of an alternate bleed effect, the new player might just use that alternate effect and learn that ousting your prey is better than helping somebody else win.

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    01 Apr 2017 08:33 - 01 Apr 2017 08:42 #81256 by Ankha
    In my opinion, Deep Song should have had a "do not replace" clause, or the "enter combat" effect should have been kept to minimal (no tapping, no "you declare strikes first" effect).
    It's still a frenzy card, and works only on vampires, but unless you're playing against Abombwe, the first drawback is not really relevant, and rushing allies is quite cornercase.

    Prince of Paris, France
    Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
    Last edit: 01 Apr 2017 08:42 by Ankha.

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