New set in 2012

Non-existant user wrote:

You make it sound like it is easier to cheat with proxies.

Not my intention. And also, not the same situation. Ofcourse I can choose to cheat with sleeves like in the examples you give. The difference is that I would choose to, and with a piece of paper in front of a card I don't get a choice. It's just there, and someone can accuse me of cheating while I had no other choice than to play by tournament rules.

As I understand, the whole cheating-thing is based on mutual trust. I also think that, in this community, folks generally can be trusted with this. I hope you all agree.

But as such an important issue is based on trust alone, why not do the same with printing cards on decent card-stock? Just trust folks not to seel the stuff on eBay and you're completely fine.

I also don't think that the people that keep the VEKN going can be sued if I decide to make my own cards, using the cardbacks and the logo's and all. There's no real connection between the VEKN, being an organization that runs tournaments and keeps track of a rating (?), and myself, being an individual, not directly linked in any way to the VEKN. I simply 'just' join their events, every once and while.

And another thing: I have a few friends who work at professional printing companies, who told me it's not really easy to have cards be printed double-sided and then cut out on cardstock, and, for a commercial customer like myself, it will certainly not be very cheap (most companies are not set up for playing cards, like Carta Mundi for example, so special arrangements and equipment will have to be made and bought). So in order for me to make a profit on eBay, I will have to sell those cards at quite high prices. If folks have the choice to pay a rather high amount of money for my cards, or get the PDF for free and print the cards relatively cheap, I doubt the venture of selling them on eBay will be very succesful.

The advice for printing cards like Enkil Cog and selling those will assure a much higher profit, if one wants to do harm...

In the end, if it's affordable enough, I will still get my own copies of the new set on cardstock (and a lot of other Dutch players with me, I think) for personal use. If the only way to still be allowed on VEKN events will be the use of paper cards in front of real ones, then sure, I'll do that. Don't want to be DQ'd for something this silly after all.

I'm curious by what reasoning people think that it's acceptable to defy the will of the people now running the game.

As nothing was ever said (or done) for the 15+ years prior to now, I can only hypothesize that there is a lack of respect, if not outright disregard, for the people now running the game.

Why is that, I wonder?

Angel74 wrote:

Not my intention. And also, not the same situation. Ofcourse I can choose to cheat with sleeves like in the examples you give. The difference is that I would choose to, and with a piece of paper in front of a card I don't get a choice. It's just there, and someone can accuse me of cheating while I had no other choice than to play by tournament rules.

It is much less "there" than a Jyhad card in a Vampire deck because you have to take an extra step to notice it. Following your line of thought, a judge should already be called to check the deck every time a Jyhad card pops up. How often have you seen or heard of it happening? As for me, never, and there is no reason for it to change.

KevinM wrote:

As nothing was ever said (or done) for the 15+ years prior to now, I can only hypothesize that there is a lack of respect, if not outright disregard, for the people now running the game.

Remember kids, no-one ever played 4CL.

No-one ever enforced the Golden Tenets or the Sensible Players Tournament Rules before they were ratified.

No-one ever set up a regional (then national) Jyhad League.

No-one has ever run a Continental Championship telling people that they openly disapprove of VP deals and that players need "powerful reasons" to make deals, rather than just following the rules (which demanded no such "powerful reasons"), because they disagreed with LSJ's rulings on the subject.


If you remember any of these things happening, you are wrong - KevinM has rewritten reality.

There IS a lack of respect and outright disregard for the people now running the game.
I think it comes out of ignorance.

LSJ had few "because I say so" moments. If Pascal follows Scott's steps we are very, very lucky.
I acknowledge he does some things even better, like answering questions with more words than "Correct" or "Cardtext".
Personally I never had problems with my interactions with Scott, as I knew he had a life outside of VtES and answering like that was the only way for him to be quick (and he was almost always very quick) in answering.

People disregard very easily that there might be good reasons for the way things are being implemented and I've seen lots of offensive things here.
There are some users that seem to think that the VEKN officials build the worst and hardest policies possible because it somehow fancies them.
They don't even give the benefit of the doubt. To me (not being Inner Circle and being little more than just a player), that is offensive.

EDIT: weird double post. Sorry guys.