Honest Idea for fixing overly strong master cards!

Suoli wrote:

In the meanwhile, I am content with discussing V:TES theory.

So say we all.

People. Really.
Girls decks don't win more than / Grinders, Shamblers or / Bleed.
Check the TWDA.
There are allot of different decks winning everywhere, all the time.

elotar wrote:

But I still want to mention, that the problem really is not in the deck, but just in Villein + MMPA + ash heap recursion combination.

Agreed.

Brum wrote:

People. Really.
Girls decks don't win more than / Grinders, Shamblers or / Bleed.
Check the TWDA.
There are allot of different decks winning everywhere, all the time.

Those would be at the top of a list of archetypes I would play against Girls. What would be worrying is if a lot of people had the same idea and the tournament metagame boiled down to Girls and 4 anti-Girl archetypes. Not exactly a lot of different decks.

Suoli wrote:

What would be worrying is if a lot of people had the same idea and the tournament metagame boiled down to Girls and 4 anti-Girl archetypes. Not exactly a lot of different decks.

That's the point, though: people don't do that.

There's always been a short list of the absolute best tournament decks, and there've always been people who insisted that those decks couldn't be beaten except by another very short list of decks, and yet people have continued to play all kinds of different decks in tournaments in spite of (and in some cases, deliberately because of) the existence of both of those lists. That the specific decks on that short list have changed over time isn't surprising; what is surprising is that every time a new decktype makes it onto that list, there are people who freak out about that new decktype as though there's never been a new good deck archetype before.

The number of people who are going to metagame specifically against Girls decks (a deck which, as it's been pointed out over and over again, isn't actually any more successful than any other Tier One deck, none of which get specifically metagamed against in any meanginful way) is so vanishingly small that your worry that the metagame is going to distort around people playing Girls decks is ill-founded. Girls decks aren't some metagame gravity well of a kind we've never seen before; they're just the new [insert personally hated new deck type here].

Kushiel wrote:

Suoli wrote:

What would be worrying is if a lot of people had the same idea and the tournament metagame boiled down to Girls and 4 anti-Girl archetypes. Not exactly a lot of different decks.

That's the point, though: people don't do that.

Well, there was the guy in this very thread who chose to play DEM-weenie specifically because of Girls. But that's anecdotal. I don't see any way for either one of us to prove the other wrong at this moment so I'll leave this point alone.

There's always been a short list of the absolute best tournament decks, and there've always been people who insisted that those decks couldn't be beaten except by another very short list of decks, and yet people have continued to play all kinds of different decks in tournaments in spite of (and in some cases, deliberately because of) the existence of both of those lists. That the specific decks on that short list have changed over time isn't surprising; what is surprising is that every time a new decktype makes it onto that list, there are people who freak out about that new decktype as though there's never been a new good deck archetype before.

I don't know if there are that many archetypes that can only be countered by specific archetypes. Most matchups can be handled by adding more stealth, bounce, combat defense, intercept, maneuvers, specific hoser cards like Scourge of the Enochians, etc. to the deck of your choice. Some decks will still outright suck against other decks. I have a feeling that there are significantly more decks that suck against Girls than there are decks that suck against the other major archetypes.

The number of people who are going to metagame specifically against Girls decks (a deck which, as it's been pointed out over and over again, isn't actually any more successful than any other Tier One deck, none of which get specifically metagamed against in any meanginful way)

I've heard people say that but I haven't heard any convincing arguments. The TWDA isn't very strong proof if you don't adjust for the difficulty of acquiring multiple Villeins, Ashurs and Liquidations.

is so vanishingly small that your worry that the metagame is going to distort around people playing Girls decks is ill-founded. Girls decks aren't some metagame gravity well of a kind we've never seen before; they're just the new [insert personally hated new deck type here].

I contend that against past [hated new deck type]s it was enough for most decks to add countermeasures but against Girls most decks outright suck.