Honest Idea for fixing overly strong master cards!

ICL wrote:

As for masters being the problem, well, that's not exactly new, but I wouldn't say it's the masters so much as it is multiple MPAs. Multiple MPAs has always been broken, which is why I've seen Anson played in decks that used none of his other features - disciplines, title, Toreadorness.

Exactly, at least I would say that other than maybe Huitzilopocthli, the MPA specials are way underpriced. 8 Cap, +MPA (ok, maybe...) prince (what?) two superiors inf. out-of clan dominate (the hell?). The same goes with Nana, the same even goes with a 10-cap Baali who also can bleed for 3 and has a score of superior disciplines...

ICL wrote:

Lastly, stop with suggesting hosers. They almost never work and they make CCGs less fun. V:TES is late to the party in the hoser mentality, but it's clear that it started embracing it in recent years, and the efforts - Vessel, Villein, Scourge of the Enochians, etc. - are not ones I believe make for a better game.

Exactly. Though I think Vessel was fine since it didn't wallpaper Blood Doll

I've only played against Girls decks a few times in tournaments, including once during the Origins NAC. they didn't seem to do that well on those days. I ended up sweeping one of those games. I'd say like all powerful decks, it still depends on player skill and/or luck to get its wins.

However, I think some people here may have a point about hosing multiple MPAs. there really isn't any card that can deal with that advantage directly, besides maybe the Rising. and sometimes Veil of Darkness, if they actually use disciplines. you can mess up someone's minion card flow with Meddling Of Semsith or Blood Weakens. Port Authority and Camarilla Threat can screw up discard phase actions, and there's other cards to weaken or deny Untaps.

it'd be interesting if there had been a card like Camarilla Threat that affected Master Phase Actions. playing 5 master cards a turn (Nana + Cybele + Parthenon + Trifle) should maybe have a little bit of risk attached. if only new VTES cards could be made, I'd be okay with a little silver bullet. every other strategy in the game already has one, after all.

Just played in a tournament last sunday, 22 players, there was at least 2 girls decks there, might have been 3, didn't look that closely, none of them made it to the finals. I played with DEM/obf weenie bleed that was picked specifically because it should be able to beat girls decks. Bad news was that I didn't actually ever get to the same table with any of them, good news was that I still won the tournament, so there is a deck that should be able to beat girls and is also effective against most other things.

Klaital wrote:

Just played in a tournament last sunday, 22 players, there was at least 2 girls decks there, might have been 3, didn't look that closely, none of them made it to the finals. I played with DEM/obf weenie bleed that was picked specifically because it should be able to beat girls decks. Bad news was that I didn't actually ever get to the same table with any of them, good news was that I still won the tournament, so there is a deck that should be able to beat girls and is also effective against most other things.

And that's why I might start to hate the Girls.

Suoli wrote:

Klaital wrote:

Just played in a tournament last sunday, 22 players, there was at least 2 girls decks there, might have been 3, didn't look that closely, none of them made it to the finals. I played with DEM/obf weenie bleed that was picked specifically because it should be able to beat girls decks. Bad news was that I didn't actually ever get to the same table with any of them, good news was that I still won the tournament, so there is a deck that should be able to beat girls and is also effective against most other things.

And that's why I might start to hate the Girls.

+1
The problem with ridiculous decks is that you need ridiculous answer to them, and then ridiculous answer to ridiculous answer.
As a result we got ugly play environment.

It appears you two are not reading Klaital's post right. Let's try again:

Just played in a tournament last sunday, 22 players, there was at least 2 girls decks there, might have been 3, didn't look that closely, none of them made it to the finals. Bad news was that I didn't actually ever get to the same table with any of them

Let's pick this apart, shall we?

First we see that neither of the two girls deck made the finals. That means that neither had accumulated enough Gamewins (or more likely given the 22-player size, a gamewin at all) to be amongst the top 5 of the day. That means that said girls decks were either ousted OR (more likely) did manage to time the game with less than 2 VP.

Secondly we see that Klaital has not played against said Girls decks, which means that decks OTHER THAN Klaital's deck must have been the decks ousting and/or stopping the girls. Now, unless we are looking at the highly unlikely scenarios that everyone else played weenie dementation, it appears there are *plenty* of decks that can defeat the girls.

The problem with ridiculous decks is that you need ridiculous answer to them, and then ridiculous answer to ridiculous answer.

A deck is as ridiculous as you let it become.

I have ousted a girls deck with my Assamite Pancake Mix deck, which is hardly a "ridiculous" deck. I have ousted a girls deck with a freaking Muaziz Abactor deck (which I suppose can be classified as ridiculous if you put "hilarious" behind it) and I have ousted girls with a neo-Brujah lawfirm WITHOUT A SINGLE COPY OF PARITY SHIFT which could, I guess be classified as ridiculously bad.

I have also failed to oust or have been ousted by girls plenty of times with decks that are all considered a lot stronger than above decks.

If you want to sit there and play passive, sure girls will win. If you have girls as grandprey and you cripple your prey enough to make him forget he has a prey, sure girls will win. Any other scenario, they are just another deck at the table.

Seriously. Stop randomly hating on good decks you can't build. Start playing better.