Honest Idea for fixing overly strong master cards!

Joscha wrote:

But you don't have to cancel every master card the deck plays. You concentrate on crucial ones.

Anthelios and multiple Villeins/Golcondas/Liquidations makes it very difficult to stop the bloating with Suddens.

That said I just want to repeat that I appreciate Serazahr's presentation of his idea of louche-cards. I rated it "too complicated" but liked the discussion. In the beginning there were nice arguments for and against. But then again it slipped away in the already known and tiring master-card and Girls-bashing routine. It's like the everlasting PTO-discussion some years before.

That discussion lasted only as long as PTO did.

brandonsantacruz wrote:

Point One- You do not need to burn a minion every turn, or maybe ever.
Even though the Girls gain a lot of pool, they do not have an unlimited supply of vampires in their uncontrolled region and crypt. If you eliminate (or the offending player does by way of Golconda) the bouncing chick or even Cybelle, there may not be another one handy. Defense has to come from somewhere, so take part/all of that out.

Point Two- Nightmare Curse is a somewhat more difficult to use version of Sensory Deprivation. Sens Dep *is* an effective means of locking down the bouncer that doesn't require burning her. She will still have to be tapped, so how about a little Misdirection, Anarch Troublemaker, Edged Illusion, Nightmare Curse, Deep Song, etc. I sense a Ravnos comeback!

Points one and two both relate to removing Aksinya and Girls responds to both methods the same way: Villein+Golconda and, if that's not enough to handle the bleeds from a rush/Ravnos deck, bring out another Aksinya via Wider View/Info Highway/Zillah's. You'd need PRE-weenie caliber tap&bleed to race them.

Ashur wrote:

I would prefer designing new cards that hose Ashur Tablets and Villein instead of new rules.

Like Juggernaut said earlier on it would help if Villein had to be played as written.

Magic bullet for Ashurs might be trickier as it would have to be way better than Wash or Sudden in order for it to be added to decks so I'd still stick with those myself. Much more widely useable than silver bullet for Ashurs.

Ashur wrote:

Sadly it seems hard to convince the player community to agree on adding new cards (too many LSJ fanboys).

Please stand by citizen!
It is not altgether impossible that you might get what you wish...



(and BTW one should give a ton of credit & respect for LSJ for designing a truckful of nifty cards and rules for the game and thus improving it immensely... )

Suoli wrote:

Lastly, the 6 copies of Nightmare Curse in the TWDA were only used for out/inferior effect. There's just no tournament viable deck for AUS/CHI minions that could properly use it.

My view is that proper use of Nightmare Curse is the inferior. But, we are talking about using it against a particular deck. I'm still failing to see how the Chi version isn't exactly what you want to tap Aksinya. When I read the decklists, I see like 2-3 untap reactions.

In a more general sense, still on the topic of Girls, I see it having the opposite problem to various weenie decks. Where a good weenie deck should ensure a dead first prey except for another weenie deck but have problems turning the corner against an aware table to where there are reasons to avoid them as a metagame choice, the Girls decks can bloat forever but can't necessarily decide to oust people. Maybe I'm missing something, but the offense looks limited in the decklists I see to where another deck that bloats can ignore it and decks with decent defense can weather it; sure, it can grind well with constant 3 bleeds backed up by the most efficient combat in the game today, but that can be handled by the right decks. In theory, it's not necessarily a good metagame choice because it won't get you to the finals and, these days, may end up with contestation problems.

As for masters being the problem, well, that's not exactly new, but I wouldn't say it's the masters so much as it is multiple MPAs. Multiple MPAs has always been broken, which is why I've seen Anson played in decks that used none of his other features - disciplines, title, Toreadorness. This is the root cause of a lot of tedious decks. While I may abhor Ashur Tablets, Liquidation (more so for being essentially a promo), Anthelios, Villein (Minion Tap neither needed to get stronger nor needed to be hosed), etc., the game is entirely different when you can play more of the "best cards in the game" faster to where I'd also like to see Rumors of Gehenna and The Parthenon out of the game along with the current versions of all of the vampires specials that give MMPAs.

Lastly, stop with suggesting hosers. They almost never work and they make CCGs less fun. V:TES is late to the party in the hoser mentality, but it's clear that it started embracing it in recent years, and the efforts - Vessel, Villein, Scourge of the Enochians, etc. - are not ones I believe make for a better game.

ICL wrote:

My view is that proper use of Nightmare Curse is the inferior. But, we are talking about using it against a particular deck. I'm still failing to see how the Chi version isn't exactly what you want to tap Aksinya. When I read the decklists, I see like 2-3 untap reactions.

Gabrin Tap&Bleed probably can't muster up enough consistent bleed power to overcome the bloat.

I agree with your other points.