file Can I put Infernal Pact on Vidal Jarbeaux ?

28 Jan 2013 06:49 #44503 by Pascal Bertrand
If you control Vidal and he hasn't faked !Tremere yet, you can play an Infernal Pact on Vidal. Vidal would be faking !Tremere for the resolution of playing that Infernal Pact (which means you can put that Infernal Pact on Vidal).


It is likely that I add a few words to Vidal's text to make this clearer.
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15 May 2020 21:40 #99840 by Hakuron
Could we get a clear note, maybe in the card rulings, that Vidal's text allows his methuselah also to meet the requirements to play master card of a different clan (once per clan)?

Thanks in advance!
:tore:

National Coordinator Germany
Toreador Prince of Darmstadt, Heart of the Jugendstil

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16 May 2020 09:55 #99844 by lip
I did put the ruling in the codex.

codex-of-the-damned.org/card-search/index.html?card=Vidal%20Jarbeaux

If there’s any ruling you’d like to see added, do not hesitate to submit it on the form in the card search page.

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19 Sep 2020 23:45 - 19 Sep 2020 23:48 #100799 by Miller
Sorry to get back on this one, but it is still unclear imho.

Does Vidal's ability allow his Methuselah to play master cards from other clans/sects as well? Is there a specific ruling?

Vidal's text is fundamentally different from Mata Hari's, hence the confusion. While the former refers only to the minion himself, the latter highlights "You and she may play".

Name: Vidal Jarbeaux
[KoT:V]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Toreador
Group: 5
Capacity: 8
Discipline: aus cel obf pot PRE
Camarilla: Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire trait (e.g., {Black Hand}) requirement to play any card. He can meet a given requirement only once each game. +1 bleed.
Artist: Mike Gaydos

Name: Mata Hari
[KMW:U/PAn]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Ravnos
Group: 4
Capacity: 7
Discipline: aus for qui CHI OBF
Independent. Red List: Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan.
Artist: Steve Prescott
Last edit: 19 Sep 2020 23:48 by Miller.

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20 Sep 2020 06:31 #100800 by lip

Does Vidal's ability allow his Methuselah to play master cards from other clans/sects as well? Is there a specific ruling?

Yes. Ruling is Pascal's, just above.

If you control Vidal and he hasn't faked !Tremere yet, you can play an Infernal Pact on Vidal. Vidal would be faking !Tremere for the resolution of playing that Infernal Pact (which means you can put that Infernal Pact on Vidal).

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23 Sep 2020 07:14 - 23 Sep 2020 07:16 #100810 by Bloodartist
Why do I have this habit of delving into rules questions first thing after waking up... uugh

Camarilla: Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire trait (e.g., {Black Hand}) requirement to play any card. He can meet a given requirement only once each game. +1 bleed.

Independent. Red List: Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan.
Artist: Steve Prescott


The reason why Vidal and Mata Hari are different, is that Mata Hari specifically mentions the player in the card text. Mata Hari allows the player to play Ventrue HQ as if Mata Hari was a ventrue (she fulfills the requirement of a ventrue in play).

Vidal doesn't refer to the player. He refers only to himself. "To play any card" refers to Vidal playing the card. Therefore he shouldn't fulfill the requirements of playing master cards.

However, you apparently have LSJ ruling from the paleolithic period saying otherwise. So I see three options:
1. Errata Vidals cardtext to mention the player "for you and Vidal to play any card", mirroring Mata Haris text.
2. Obey the existing card text and actually rule against LSJ for once
3. Ban Vidal (I would shed no tears if you choose this option)

ps. We can all be silently thankful to BCP for omitting Vidal's reprint among the recent Keepers of the Tradition reprints.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 23 Sep 2020 07:16 by Bloodartist.

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