file Can I put Infernal Pact on Vidal Jarbeaux ?

10 Jan 2013 13:48 #43878 by Ohlmann

wesile wrote: Jarbeaux can use only one of the abilities. You can always use mata hari to play cards that require Ventrue, Baali, or else. Jarbeaux can only play one of the cards for each trait.


Yes, but what I want to say is that Mata Hari current text have a (supposedly) useless reminder that master card you play are also affected, while Jarbeaux does not have such text and yet work on the same fashion.

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10 Jan 2013 15:39 - 10 Jan 2013 15:42 #43898 by hardyrange

Ohlmann wrote: also, it mean that Mata Hari could be rewrited from :

You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan.


to

Mata Hari may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan.


so that there is no ambiguity on whether she work differently from Jarbeaux or not.

Not sure what you want to say exactly here.

Rewriting Mata Hari's text in the manner you suggest would change the scope of her special ability.
The current text allows both her and the Muthuselah to play (minion and master) cards.
The new text would limit her special to minion cards only (compare to Kemintiri (ADV)'s card text, which uses the "She can play minion cards that require..." text).

Vidal's card text, in my opinion, is NOT like what you suggest as rewritten version of Mata Hari; it does NOT use the "[Minion] can play..." wording.

"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum
Last edit: 10 Jan 2013 15:42 by hardyrange.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Boris The Blade

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10 Jan 2013 15:45 #43899 by Ohlmann

hardyrange wrote: Rewriting Mata Hari's text in the manner you suggest would change the scope of her special ability.


It seem you didn't read the above post.

LSJ said, as Izaak point out, that Jarbeaux with current text allow Master to be played. So Mata Hari with this text would still allow to play master card.

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10 Jan 2013 17:04 - 10 Jan 2013 17:07 #43904 by hardyrange

Ohlmann wrote:

hardyrange wrote: Rewriting Mata Hari's text in the manner you suggest would change the scope of her special ability.


It seem you didn't read the above post.

LSJ said, as Izaak point out, that Jarbeaux with current text allow Master to be played. So Mata Hari with this text would still allow to play master card.

Well, I did in fact read the whole thread.

Maybe we leave it at the statement that I have the exact opposite opinion about this, as the text you proposed for Mata Hari is not using the same wording used in Vidal's text, so in my opnion would lead to a differnet special ability? :-)

"Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire trait (e.g., anarch) requirement to play any card..."

versus

"Mata Hari may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan."

But maybe this is indeed confusion in a discussion between non-native speakers.... :blink:

"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum
Last edit: 10 Jan 2013 17:07 by hardyrange.

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10 Jan 2013 18:12 - 10 Jan 2013 18:16 #43907 by Sérgio
I agree with hardyrange -- the way Ohlmann worded Mata Hari means she is the only one (of her and the Methuselah who controls her) that can play cards which require [exotic stuff].

That's because "Mata Hari may play" binds to Mata Hari, while the "to play" in Vidal's text is not bound to him, apparently.
Last edit: 10 Jan 2013 18:16 by Sérgio. Reason: clicked the wrong buttons and quoted and posted stuff I didn't wanna

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10 Jan 2013 18:27 #43908 by Ohlmann

Sérgio wrote: I agree with hardyrange -- the way Ohlmann worded Mata Hari means she is the only one (of her and the Methuselah who controls her) that can play cards which require [exotic stuff].


The fun thing is - I agree with that. But LSJ does not, so it's more or less "there is an official statement that I, hardyrange, and Sergio are wrong".

Then again, look at the Izaak post.

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