file On Giant's Blood 4. "problematic card"

17 Nov 2011 09:18 #14723 by Hakuron
PRO

due to "once per game" and:
A deck trying to be a "winning deck" should be able to deal with additional up to 11 pool rewarded by Villein + Giant's Blood.


:tore:

National Coordinator Germany
nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de

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17 Nov 2011 14:14 #14745 by elotar
PRO

It's really not so good: gamble to have "dead card" or several blood, whith the ods greatly in favor of the first.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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17 Nov 2011 19:15 #14798 by extrala
PRO:
Most of the arguments have already mentioned. The "once-per-game" clause being the strongest imho.

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17 Nov 2011 19:31 - 17 Nov 2011 19:32 #14804 by Xaddam
I don't like the idea of banning or changing cards, but I feel like I have something to add here, so I will.

(1) Arguments like "it's been this way forever" does not say anything about whether or not it's balanced. Card interaction is important as well. Imagine a card like this:
:PRE: :DOM: :DEM: :OBF: :MYT: :THA: : +4 stealth action. Bleed at +5. You gain 2 pool if this action is successful. Masters cannot be played during this action.
A card like this could seem balanced until a vampire which can play it appears (please argue against my point instead of my example if you find this to be untrue). Sure, the card will only appear to be imbalanced until after the new card (villein in this analogy) appears, but citing the newest card (Villein) as the cause is a case of the post hoc, ergo propter hoc-fallacy. I agree with a few of the previous speakers in this: the game would be wildly different (and worse) without villein, the game would be slightly different (and better) without giant's blood (same goes for lilith's blessing, even if that is a bit off-topic).

(2) The restriction of the card to make it only playable once each game does make it balanced, I agree. But a balanced card does not necessarily have to be a well-designed card.

Adam Esbjörnsson,
Prince of Örebro
Last edit: 17 Nov 2011 19:32 by Xaddam.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Hakuron

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19 Nov 2011 10:03 - 19 Nov 2011 16:26 #14985 by Joscha
Hm, regarding a poll it seems just to be Ban it or Keep it, right? There were no suggestions for a change. Although I have to say actually there were very few calls for a ban. But I think we need a poll anyway.

EDIT: There were two more suggestions. So the poll would be:

a) No change. Card is fine as it is.
b) Change the amount of blood it restores to a vampire (to 4 for example).
c) Change its playability on ready vampires only.
d) Ban it right away.

Any more missing?

Baron of Frankfurt
Last edit: 19 Nov 2011 16:26 by Joscha. Reason: Misunderstanding.

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19 Nov 2011 10:21 #14992 by Lech

Hm, regarding a poll it seems just to be Ban it or Keep it, right? There were no suggestions for a change. Although I have to say actually there were very few calls for a ban. But I think we need a poll anyway.


Wrong, there was suggestion to change the text.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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