Make Big-Caps Better

I think josef has drawbacks but some things can be done with him. 4 votes along with +1 stealth is not bad. And Damnans is right about being able to play lost in translation.

There are others, like Hukros, who seem to be missing something that makes them more playable. I don't know if fortitude is the answer however. I say this because I think of vamps like Angus, the Unruled who has votes and stealth but I rarely ever see played.

Just my first thoughts about this.

brandonsantacruz wrote:

I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps.

After the release of Villein, I think big cap decks of all sorts are quite playable in a competitive environment. In the psst 1-2 years fatty decks are rampant in all sort of tournaments.

The example of Josef von Bauren for the "weakness" of fatties is ill chosen. There will always be vampires with better or worse discipline spreads or special abilities. A very good counter example is The Unnamed, he doesn't have AUS, dom or for, yet he is in the TWDA multiple times (7). Even Josef is in 5 of them.

Lost in Translation is something, but I don't think it is efficient enough to base your bleed defense around when playing weak vampires. I think one big thing that sets a vampire like Angus apart from Hukros is the usefulness of his title. Second Tradition provides a very reasonable chance of blocking, generally a good way to stay alive.

Maybe I'm wrong about Lost in Translation. Most of the time I see a full-price dunce like Josef Von Bauren pop up though, I see the player who brings him out die shortly afterwards.

brandonsantacruz wrote:

I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps.

What do you all think?

First, don't focus too much on bounce. Bounce is a defensive abilitie, a good one, but only one. More diversity is extremely good.

Second, inferior fortitude added automatically is the worst idea ever, a way to say "hello, you must play " which is a Very Bad Idea (TM). Also, Shalmath don't need

Then again, there is a bit of truth in that bigcap without strong defensive capability (being prince, magaji, bounce, +1 intercept, ...) tend to be very weak compared to other.

By the way, Dark Mirror of the Mind was added for the very purpose of making thoses bigcaps useful. And somes decks do use it to great effect. Enkil Cog is another one, which tend to advantage thoses with defensive untap.

Effectively, to make thoses more efficient, you would need either :

* a new rule, like "cap 9+ don't tap the first time they block each turn", or something to that extent, which mean each and everyone of them can defend you effectively (or, simply "each vampire cap 8+ bleed for 2 base ; each cap 11 bleed for 3 base" so that their action are decisive quickly)

* add card reserved to cap 9+ that give either good enough multiacting (freak-drive like), much more powerful action (say, a direct sent to torpor action, an "enter combat, then enter combat with another vampire", a way to bloat for 3+, or any other example of action much more powerful than the usual), or strong defense (like No Secret or 2nd trad that give untap and intercept in the same card, or a -2 bleed for every vampire for one turn, or other possibility that may exist)

If card for 9+ are introduced, it would be best to match them to discipline and not make them generic, to avoid uniformization ; but disciplineless card would be much much more easier to balance.

As a last note, it's not cap 10+ that worrie me, but cap 5-7, since the hype is more about using 1-2 cap 8+ than 2-3 cap 5-7

brandonsantacruz wrote:

I think that every 10+ capacity vampire without AUS, dom, or inferior fortitude should get inferior fortitude (I'm looking at you, Josef Von Bauren). Vampires must either be able to bounce bleeds or multi-act (with a good multi-act card). I might even lower it to 9-caps.

What do you all think?

Maybe you would prefer them to have the inherent ability to untap once a turn by paying 1 blood? I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with your hypothesis, but if I did, I would say that large caps should be improved by giving them an inherent multi-acting ability, rather than giving them access to a particular basic discipline, one of whose cards allows multi-acting on a successful action.

If we agree that 10- and 11-caps get too few actions for their cost in pool and transfers, then I would say the inherent ability should be the equivalent of a superior Freak Drive, meaning that the vampire could burn 1 blood to untap even if the first action was unsuccessful.

Personally, I tend to agree with those posters who have said that

1. Josef von Bauren just happens to be bad for his capacity, just as there are bad vampires at any capacity. Josef's capacity is a significant limitation for Josef in particular. +1 stealth is only useful while acting, and Josef's capacity limits the number of his actions. The bleed actions of the "normal" IC members are worth three basic vampire actions, but his bleed amount is only worth two.

2. the presence of Villein (and even *gasp* unnerfed Minion Tap) increases the possibility of using large cap vampires safely. Of course, Villein does not actually replace actions, although it perhaps replaces blocks since you can use the pool to absorb bleeds.

Is the issue that you like the vampire and would like to be able to use it effectively? Since he has , a wall deck may be the way to go, and unfortunately, I think it is the only way with him and some other large caps. If you can't multi-act, you can multi-block, which in this game is very close to the same thing.

Of course, I realize that the VTES Bible says "Thou shalt Villein thy 11-cap to 1 blood; or to 0 blood thus begetting the Blessing of Lillith or the Blood of the Giant", but sometimes that blood can be used effectively for multi-blocking, too. It's also sometimes okay to only get one 10- or 11-cap out and then surround him with smaller-cap helpers instead of influencing the typical four 11-caps plus Nana Buruku. Again, it's hard to imagine such a thing, but it's been known to work.