Tier 1 deck archetypes

Izaak wrote:

I don't think you really have a strong grasp on how Enkidu Meld/Psyche! flows when played correctly.

You mean, I don't have a strong grasp on how the deck plays when it flows correctly. Which I actually have.

In which case it's pretty alright, but that's when the stars align and you draw the right cards in the right order. Still nowhere near tier 1, but whatever suits you.

Eh, card flow is the last thing that deck has to worry about when properly built. It's more robust in that way than probably 90% of other tier 1 decks.

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Could be. French nationals, for example, are usually full of both terrible players and terrible decks.

Winning one tournament don't make a deck tier1. Also, nobody was seriously expecting combat, or Enkidu. If you do, and actually try to remember the deck have very few space for anything other than Psyche/Earth meld/Pursuit, and that's not a foolproof plan (for example, 12 Superior Mettle can frustrate a Enkidu deck to no end, since he don't have space for Carrion)

You also forget he setup slowly, oust slowly, may have to destroy his predator and give the table to his grandpredator, and like every combat deck on earth can hand jam easily. It's were Reyda say "good player don't hand jam". But they can also win tournament with underpowered deck too.

Also, not tier1 does not mean trash deck. Enkidu is a way to take advantage when people are lazy on anti-combat setup, and it's not the easier deck to counter ; it's not the hardest either.

PS : I do have played against the version you talk of. I have seen it hand jam, and in another instance been destroyed by blood brother rush simply because the blood brother were persistent enough to burn through the few defense card of the deck. Blood brother tier0 deck ? (sarcasm inside)

Reyda wrote:

they are all the rage during tournaments, and are one step ahead the tremere archetype. Fortitude cards give them access to better resilience, freak drive for multi action the turn you are out of intercept, and daring the down which is amazing for the lunge. They have a lot of small caps with dom, and the blood gain from Owain is incredible through the course of a game. They can defend the rack or smiling jack better than the most of the tremere decks I saw in tournaments.

Don't forget about the advantages Tremere have: Magic of the Smith yields crucial equipment early in the game; Theft of Vitae is more effective against fortitude and ranged combat; strong clan cards like Arcane Library, Chantry, and Ponticulus. I prefer to think of the Tremere version of the archetype as different, not better or worse.

Ohlmann wrote:

Winning one tournament don't make a deck tier1. Also, nobody was seriously expecting combat, or Enkidu. If you do, and actually try to remember the deck have very few space for anything other than Psyche/Earth meld/Pursuit, and that's not a foolproof plan (for example, 12 Superior Mettle can frustrate a Enkidu deck to no end, since he don't have space for Carrion)

(I assume you meant Rolling with the Punches, because Superior Mettle doesn't help against additionals.)
If you have 12 prevent cards in a 70 card deck, I'm going to bet on Enkidu slapping you silly 9 times out of 10. Over many, many tests, Carrion Crows was deemed unnecessary. That's why it's not played.

I'm also going to bet that the guy that tries to have a reliable combat defense against Enkidu has either a very specific or a very terrible deck.

Ohlmann wrote:

Winning one tournament don't make a deck tier1.

Of course it doesn't. This version has won four tournaments, though, which is a bit closer, but still not "proof" of course. However, Suoli has something ridiculous like a 90% win rate or something with his deck. It also made the finals in EC FCQ.

(for example, 12 Superior Mettle can frustrate a Enkidu deck to no end, since he don't have space for Carrion)

I have never seen such a combat module. Seems extremely janky.

You also forget he setup slowly, oust slowly,

Nope. Quote from the TWDA: "the longest game I played in the tournament lasted for about 1h 15min
I still managed to deplete my library in every single game"

and in another instance been destroyed by blood brother rush simply because the blood brother were persistent enough to burn through the few defense card of the deck. Blood brother tier0 deck ? (sarcasm inside)

And I've seen a Samedi precon oust a Girls deck. So?

Ohlmann wrote:

Also, nobody was seriously expecting combat, or Enkidu.

Yeah, packing combat makes your deck lose focus.

Then again, losing your vampires due to lack of combat makes you deck lose. Mighty hard to win from torpor/ashpile...

In my experience the central European metagame tends to favor less combat oriented deck. Here in northeast combat is usually present and sometimes heavily present. Taking combat decks from heavy combat environment to soft combat environment tends to wreck even more havoc than normally on the receiving end of heavy combat.