Will Lilith´s Blessing return?

jhattara wrote:

Ashur wrote:

jhattara wrote:

It's banned and personally I can't see it returning without serious errata, and that is kind of pointless to do without new prints.

Why? Plenty of cards have errata.

Almost all of the cards with serious errata have been reprinted with that errata. Especially when the errata was extremely major.

Everyone bitches about liliths, but you know what?

Annoying as hell girls decks are still annoying as hell and still winning.

Period.

This was an excercise in card design for all of us. And its plainly not easy. Hats off to pacal.

Now, we have a game with cards we carnt use, id errata pto at this point to add cards not printed from a pdf file to the mix.
Ashurs need to be errata'd. Lilliths need to return in an erratad state.

Both cards enable other decks as well as bad ones. Villeins errata was minimal. Why not add mandatory skill card to liliths and the word "minion" to ashur, prohibiting events and masters.

Easy fix, its been said alot of times. And the idea was lilliths would be back, folks just cried too much about mmpa decks. So, since those decks are still everywhere(NAC, EC have happened. Did ppl stop playing gitlrls? HELL NO) and they tried killing one card with other applications, lets errata both lb and ashurs, make liquidation once per game, and see what happens.

Any argumentcthat lilliths was breaking the game with mmpa decks is invalid, since those decks are still here.

So, status?

when introduced to vtes i was told it had the lowest count of banned cards of any game.

im sure there are games that no one cared about in which no cards were banned.

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no offense, mirddes, but this appears to be a colossal issue for you, and i cannot fathom why this is so. even then, there are only a very small number of cards on the banned list:

Dramatic Upheaval (V:TES)
Edge Explosion (NoR)
Kindred Restructure (V:TES)
Lilith's Blessing (Promo)
Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns)
Memories of Mortality (Ancient Hearts)
Protect Thine Own (Ancient Hearts)
The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts)
Succubus Club (V:TES)

nothing is stopping you from using any of the banned cards in your own personal group. they're just banned from official VEKN sanctioned tournaments. many of these cards aren't banned from tournaments because they're overpowered, but because they have effects that just stall out the game or are just plain silly. I'd be hard pressed to convince my regular play group that they can't use Dramatic Upheaval or Kindred Restructure, or even the Succubus Club for our friendly games. i had a hard enough time convincing everyone to cut their decks down to 90 cards from 150+ and not use a 4 per-card limit.

bottom line, sir: play the game the way you want to play it. the game police aren't going to break in your door and haul you away.

I remember how the card had to be nerfed several times during playtesting, and at the end I still called it overpowered. and MMPA decks weren't that big at the time, so I wasn't even considering that angle; it was too good just by itself. I guess my playtest notes got ignored.

my point isn't about hindsight being 20/20, but rather, I don't trust that errata will go far enough. giving 3 free blood is way too good, even if you make the discipline card a prerequisite. players will jump through the hoops. even without abusing it, I simply replaced hunting grounds in all my decks for Lillith's Blessing because it was amazing.

I'm thinking something on the level of Guide & Mentor before allowing it back...

Another angle is to remove the give blood thing completely, and turn it into a way to give a skill card to a vampire (and making it Bahari thus rendering it limited to one-time per vampire). It would still enable some decks (and not actual tier 1 decks)

I am not sure if my perception is skewed because I haven't played the game for several years, but my impression is that it's getting too easy to get blood and pool these days. It requires almost no tech at all, and definitely requires a lot less deck space than it used to. The result is that bigger vampires and the decks that come with them are usable, but at the cost of games becoming too long, but perhaps that's just an ill perception. Is there data available about how many tournament matches end as 0,5 point for everyone ties compared to previous years?