Ban of Conditioning

Exposer wrote:

I think he meant modifiers.

elotar wrote:

...Monkey Wrench...

And I don't think he means modifiers, cause idea that action modifier of +2 bleed is

Non-existant user wrote:

badly needed

can not be accepted without some explanation.

cordovader wrote:

The thing that has no sense in terms of lore is that a 3-cap can bounce an 11-cap on a bleed.

I think, bounce is very important for a game right now, so removing it is not so great idea.

As a lore perspective it can be explaned like not influensing the mind of inner circle, but "rewriting" the minds of mortals ets. who are represented by pool counters, so they are mistaken by bleeder as a pawns of wrong metusela.

I'll answer in 2 words : NO, THANKS.

First reason is : I hate bans
2nd is : I even more hate bans asked by whiners (remember PTO ? )
3rd is : Dominate is strong, so what ? Deal with it !!
Imbued are more resilient and still part of the game.
Kindred Spirits enables you to bleed ANYwhere and earn pool, still part of the game.
Parity Shift moves 10 pool (at best) still part, etc.

No need for more bans, you (Floppy) can make erratas or change the rules but please stop banning cards. And if you do, don't do it because of players whining but because you truly believe the card is a problem.

a few points.
1. Too much bleed is not the problem of dominate. I have seem massive bleeds in other disiplines as well and one of the disciplines to be the king at bleeding.
2. Banning conditioning would be a solve the problem if that was your goal. It has alternatives for bleed modifiers. And they are currently not tier 1, but they would be if conditioning was not around.
3. I am not a big fan of banning cards. Although I agree on every ban decision so far.
4. Banning only the deflection would make the game much more intresting (from a deck construction standpoint). Dominate has the (I agree on you) strongest bleed in the game, but also has the best bleed defense (Not tapping at superior is quite unique and also usefull defensively at inferior is also quite unique) which is also offense. If you want to call a ban on a dominate card please say deflection.
5. i should not drink beer and write in english at the same time.


Jeroen

All the bans proposed are staple cards from day 1 of the game. Start messing with fundamentals and you'll must likely just end up with damaged product and pissed of players.

No Sir, I don't like it!


You REALLY seem to have a big agenda nowadays to ban cards left and right.
So far I heard very few people agreeing with you. So I kinda think you are a very small minority. And one that thinks if it is persistent and vocal enough, something might happen.

Lönkka wrote:

All the bans proposed are staple cards from day 1 of the game. Start messing with fundamentals and you'll must likely just end up with damaged product and pissed of players.

It this thread there are two kind of arguments:
1) banning of conditioning will not achieve anything, we need to ban more dominate cards
2) banning of conditioning will change the game significantly

I think they are not really working together.

Lönkka wrote:

You REALLY seem to have a big agenda nowadays to ban cards left and right.

Obviously. I've mentioned already, that I'm convienced that no more than 1500 cards will be in the game when it returns to print. And by now we we got only three "futures":

1) we (VEKN) will gradually change the game to more acceptable form (not only in size of the cardpool, but also rules presentation, design e t.s.) and it may return to print as continuation of the present game.

2) The game will be rebooted like how it was made by FFG with android or new GoT with significant changes, dumded down, several hundred cards at all and no continuation.

3) The game dies.

So I'm fighting for the brightest future for us all

Lönkka wrote:

So I kinda think you are a very small minority.

Not really. There are wery big number of players, who from the very beginning think that much more cards from dom must be banned. Also there are much bigger group who are disagreeing with the present state of VtES - guys who stopped playing or even don't start in the first place. I think we outnomber "you" like 100 to 1 or even a degree more