Active Fiends
29 Aug 2011 19:45 #9268
by Demnogonis Saastuttaja
Replied by Demnogonis Saastuttaja on topic Re: Active Fiends
Who in any tournament plays Vessel anyway? Don't you suspect that everybody is going to be playing Villein, so it's better to play Blood Doll, or that you yourself would rather play Villein anyway? The only reason to include Vessel in any deck is if you absolutely need it to be trifle AND might need the ability to transfer on to the vampires. In many cases I'd just mix Blood Dolls with Villeins even then.
Anyway, I'd focus the combat module with ditching the Inner Essence, Meld With the Land and Bloodform and instead have 9 Chiropteran Marauders, 6 Breath of the Dragon and 6 Carrion Crows. You have an offensive deck and I feel people should be punished for blocking you, having mild defensive combat mixed in could easily grind you to a halt with another combat deck.
I would ditch the retainer/Ally angle, you don't have time for all those 25 actions I think... Have 2x Abbot at least, that's a free action.
Instead of Living Manse I think you could use more Changeling, you have a few +bleed minions anyway and Changeling offers damage faster, and you're not that worried about the combat, there's a plenty of combat here. I also think the Femur could go, what do you need that for?
Instead of any TC I'd have My Enemy's Enemies. Then you would have 12 bounce which should make you difficult to oust with bleeding and also it allows good safety against bouncing back at you.
Anyway, I'd focus the combat module with ditching the Inner Essence, Meld With the Land and Bloodform and instead have 9 Chiropteran Marauders, 6 Breath of the Dragon and 6 Carrion Crows. You have an offensive deck and I feel people should be punished for blocking you, having mild defensive combat mixed in could easily grind you to a halt with another combat deck.
I would ditch the retainer/Ally angle, you don't have time for all those 25 actions I think... Have 2x Abbot at least, that's a free action.
Instead of Living Manse I think you could use more Changeling, you have a few +bleed minions anyway and Changeling offers damage faster, and you're not that worried about the combat, there's a plenty of combat here. I also think the Femur could go, what do you need that for?
Instead of any TC I'd have My Enemy's Enemies. Then you would have 12 bounce which should make you difficult to oust with bleeding and also it allows good safety against bouncing back at you.



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30 Aug 2011 01:09 #9279
by Haze
Replied by Haze on topic Re: Active Fiends
I've found Villein + Blood Doll to be a very good mix of pool gain. I've seen Villein-only bite a lot of players in the endgame (not to mention the cost to buy so many copies)
you really don't need Vessels in this deck, with only 11 masters. if your environment is saturated with Vessels, I suggest throwing in Bleeding the Vine. keep untapping it, tell your predator/prey they can have their ridiculous overpriced vessels, but only if they don't target your Blood Dolls (they have to announce that before you can cancel).
no Cat's Guidance? choosing untap or intercept is so good, I'd take those over Telepathic Counter. I think you need at least 1 gun in your toolbox. and with that much combat, I'm surprised you don't have Fame or Tension. you don't depend entirely on them, but they can give you that extra punch.
you really don't need Vessels in this deck, with only 11 masters. if your environment is saturated with Vessels, I suggest throwing in Bleeding the Vine. keep untapping it, tell your predator/prey they can have their ridiculous overpriced vessels, but only if they don't target your Blood Dolls (they have to announce that before you can cancel).
no Cat's Guidance? choosing untap or intercept is so good, I'd take those over Telepathic Counter. I think you need at least 1 gun in your toolbox. and with that much combat, I'm surprised you don't have Fame or Tension. you don't depend entirely on them, but they can give you that extra punch.
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30 Aug 2011 03:00 #9280
by Khaan
Lackeyname: Kris
Replied by Khaan on topic Re: Active Fiends
Slimming down the deck to 75-80 cards for better consistency is another recommendation.
Lackeyname: Kris
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30 Aug 2011 06:35 #9287
by Kiddo
Replied by Kiddo on topic Re: Active Fiends
Just several of my own comments on some propositions:
-clan based cards. I love them. And if they don't suck, I'm bound to have them in any deck. So, that's why there are Living Manses and Femur. so yeah, I might be convinced to swap Femur with Ivory bow, but this is a bleed deck and Manses will stay.
-Warghouls. As I said earlier, I'd like to try them, but it is really far from necessary in this kind of deck. However, I've seen a deck like this one once and it was fast and could well afford Warghouls, which would benefit him hugely. I haven't tried this deck yet, but I imagine they could me very useful, either keeping predator in check or clearing up the way for forward motion.
-Meld with the Land. I've noticed you guys here are not fans of S:CE strikes in an offensive deck. My experiences have been different, there are lots of situations where a predator is trying to really hurt me and I don't want to hurt him, hence Melds.My personal credo is that no matter how offensive your deck is, if you have access to S:CE. you should have at least 4 (I even play Eurobrujahs with 4 Preternatural Evasion and haven't regretted it since).
The other point is that Meld with the Land is awesome in bounce-rich environment (which is pretty much every environment, right) because of its inferior version - get bounced, talk into getting blocked by grandpray, end combat and untap him. No harm done, your prey doesn't benefit.
-Bloodforms. Well, to be honest, I've just obtained two of those and have been itching to give them a try. I've had my suspicions and several of your comments have confirmed it - they will be swapped with Plasmic Forms, which add both stealth and defensive combat.
and lastly...
Blood dolls vs Vessels - I like Blood Dolls. In a deck such as this one, where trifleness isn't needed, I'd play with only Blood Dolls. Were this a standard, wall Tzimisce, I'd perhaps play with a mix of the two. However, on a last tournament, I'd be damned if I've seen a single Blood doll, they've all been replaced with Vessels and this is where my worries come from. Villeins just don't fit - this is a deck where I do want an option of both adding blood to vamps as needed and removing blood from a single vamp several times per game.
Revised list coming soon, thanks for all the comments guys!
-clan based cards. I love them. And if they don't suck, I'm bound to have them in any deck. So, that's why there are Living Manses and Femur. so yeah, I might be convinced to swap Femur with Ivory bow, but this is a bleed deck and Manses will stay.
-Warghouls. As I said earlier, I'd like to try them, but it is really far from necessary in this kind of deck. However, I've seen a deck like this one once and it was fast and could well afford Warghouls, which would benefit him hugely. I haven't tried this deck yet, but I imagine they could me very useful, either keeping predator in check or clearing up the way for forward motion.
-Meld with the Land. I've noticed you guys here are not fans of S:CE strikes in an offensive deck. My experiences have been different, there are lots of situations where a predator is trying to really hurt me and I don't want to hurt him, hence Melds.My personal credo is that no matter how offensive your deck is, if you have access to S:CE. you should have at least 4 (I even play Eurobrujahs with 4 Preternatural Evasion and haven't regretted it since).
The other point is that Meld with the Land is awesome in bounce-rich environment (which is pretty much every environment, right) because of its inferior version - get bounced, talk into getting blocked by grandpray, end combat and untap him. No harm done, your prey doesn't benefit.
-Bloodforms. Well, to be honest, I've just obtained two of those and have been itching to give them a try. I've had my suspicions and several of your comments have confirmed it - they will be swapped with Plasmic Forms, which add both stealth and defensive combat.
and lastly...
Blood dolls vs Vessels - I like Blood Dolls. In a deck such as this one, where trifleness isn't needed, I'd play with only Blood Dolls. Were this a standard, wall Tzimisce, I'd perhaps play with a mix of the two. However, on a last tournament, I'd be damned if I've seen a single Blood doll, they've all been replaced with Vessels and this is where my worries come from. Villeins just don't fit - this is a deck where I do want an option of both adding blood to vamps as needed and removing blood from a single vamp several times per game.
You might have a point there and I'll think about it...no Cat's Guidance? choosing untap or intercept is so good, I'd take those over Telepathic Counter.
Revised list coming soon, thanks for all the comments guys!
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05 Sep 2011 08:13 #9604
by Kiddo
Replied by Kiddo on topic Re: Active Fiends
Just a small update after a test game.
Went with almost the exact list as above, just 2 Balloons were replaced with two unique bleed retainers...won a game, but it was a really close call. It was a really weird table, where my predator was playing some kind of Shatter the gate deck with only 2 vamps in the crypt (the unnamed and Lubomira) and there was also a Torpid Blood in a game. So, after I Pentexed the unnamed and Lubomira was in torpor, with my prey on about 35 pool, I was left without a predator for the entire half of the game (my grandpred was in such a bad spot that he couldn't waste an action on removing a Pentex.
Didn't play a single Warghoul, but they came way before any retiners, so I'll give this angle another try.
Bloodform truly isn't needed. Will replace it with Plasmic Forms.
Combat generally was quite ok, wrecking Ahrimanes at the beginning, but I definitely need both Fame and Dragonbound in a deck.
All my 'deflections' were used for intercept. Weird game...
Went with almost the exact list as above, just 2 Balloons were replaced with two unique bleed retainers...won a game, but it was a really close call. It was a really weird table, where my predator was playing some kind of Shatter the gate deck with only 2 vamps in the crypt (the unnamed and Lubomira) and there was also a Torpid Blood in a game. So, after I Pentexed the unnamed and Lubomira was in torpor, with my prey on about 35 pool, I was left without a predator for the entire half of the game (my grandpred was in such a bad spot that he couldn't waste an action on removing a Pentex.
Didn't play a single Warghoul, but they came way before any retiners, so I'll give this angle another try.
Bloodform truly isn't needed. Will replace it with Plasmic Forms.
Combat generally was quite ok, wrecking Ahrimanes at the beginning, but I definitely need both Fame and Dragonbound in a deck.
All my 'deflections' were used for intercept. Weird game...
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09 Sep 2011 14:36 #9837
by Brum
Replied by Brum on topic Re: Active Fiends
A friend of mine is playing a very similar concept, made in inspiration from Hugh Angseesing's TWDs with the
.
I suspect that was how Hugh trained to build the
grinder a few years later, but confirmed this with him.
To the point: this deck that works very much like a grinder with the differences that it is less powerful in bleed and in bloat.
But it generally blocks better and fights better.
I would suggest using only Chiroptean Marauders and Breath of the Dragon.
Other cards are only good against other combat decks and against them you can splash 2 or 3 Rötschrecks.
Also I advise you to see Lasombra's TWDA and look for Hugh's decks in the
section, for the master modules.
I understand it is fun, put I would completely drop the retainer / Warghoul module, sorry.
I like it more on Walls or dedicated decks.
You can simply leave the slots open or IF you choose to keep the Warghouls, try Underbridge Stray instead of the intercept retainers.
Awesome ally for this deck and that extra press can help a Warghoul.
Cheers!
Tiago

I suspect that was how Hugh trained to build the

To the point: this deck that works very much like a grinder with the differences that it is less powerful in bleed and in bloat.
But it generally blocks better and fights better.
I would suggest using only Chiroptean Marauders and Breath of the Dragon.
Other cards are only good against other combat decks and against them you can splash 2 or 3 Rötschrecks.
Also I advise you to see Lasombra's TWDA and look for Hugh's decks in the

I understand it is fun, put I would completely drop the retainer / Warghoul module, sorry.
I like it more on Walls or dedicated decks.
You can simply leave the slots open or IF you choose to keep the Warghouls, try Underbridge Stray instead of the intercept retainers.
Awesome ally for this deck and that extra press can help a Warghoul.
Cheers!
Tiago
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