New set of starters ideas

Yea, I know, that there is already some sabbath themed set of starters made by design team.

I'm sure they've done a good work.

Unfortunately the contents of them are not known to me, so ... I may fool myself that my ideas are good

1) 5 starters.
I don't know, why this number was never used in actual printed starters. Imagine - you've heard about the game, arrange optimal number of players, then found out that there is just 4 different starters in a set. It looks kind of frustrating to me.

More than five, I think, are not giving enougth "bang" (questionable ability to play with 6-7 noobs, add more variety for smaller number of players games?) for increased costs (not only to produce and buy, but to balance them between each other).

2) Maybe it's just our region, but I have found the "deck lock" problem - for many casual players the first deck encountered becomes the most important in their life. So, even if they "deviate" to different archetypes, they still return to their loved !brujah or some other crappy consept. And even the first such "move" to other archetype is very painful to them. So, I think, the ability to make tournament staple archetipe by modifying starter must be always present.

3) Starter = clan idea is, imo, plain wrong. It was discussed in another thread, so here I just mention that in must just be dropped to stop forsing misconseption, that clans in the game must be made equal.

4) First starter.
main theme - ANI toolbox
Clans present - nosferatu, gangrel, ravnos
groups 2-3
here we can reprint Bobby Lemon. Lord Ashton, Becket, Stanislava and Ezmeralda,
Deep song, sensory deprivation, mind rape
Besides main theme we can play with dominate angle

5) Second starter
bruse-block-politics
Clans present - brujah, toreador
Dmitra Ilyanova
Parity shift,
So some cel-gunz, some traditions, some votes, can be developed in one of this two ways.

6) Lawfirm
Ventrue, Salubri
Mattias (see him for $20 on ebay, bad)
Freak Drive
So some sticks and some salubri fun.

7) Weenie
!Tremere, gargoiles
Tupdog
MagicOTS, ShotgunR, RegoM, Embrace, Nephandus, Mirror walk
Some additional goal - to left open way to develop toolbox/wall

8) Stealth-bleed
Malkavian, Baali
Huitzilopochtli
Madness network, derange, eyes of argus, Madman's Quill, contagion...
Don't forget to add tolboxy options like consealed imrovised flamethrower rotschreck

Obviously Villeins and ashurs must be in all decks (2 and 3?).

elotar wrote:

1) 5 starters.
I don't know, why this number was never used in actual printed starters. Imagine - you've heard about the game, arrange optimal number of players, then found out that there is just 4 different starters in a set. It looks kind of frustrating to me.

The box-size commonly used for CCGs in retail shops fit 8 V:TES starters in them, when you include a rulebook and 90-ish cards. Which means 2 of each starter. With 5, you hit problems.

This would potentially be less relevant in a world of PoD and online ordering, but it wasn't irrelevant back in the day.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

The box-size commonly used for CCGs in retail shops fit 8 V:TES starters in them, when you include a rulebook and 90-ish cards. Which means 2 of each starter. With 5, you hit problems.

Yea, "magic standard" of 720 cards per box. Thanks.

VtES should have went with 60 library + 12 crypt in a starter.

Also, I've found, in Lorvin there was 5 starters, so to put them in a 12 starter box they make 3+3+2+2+2 distribution. Interesting.

Don't know is it relevant now, thou.

I wrote up ideas like this ages ago, but it was:
Deck 1
Cam, second trad with cel and guns, torries, bru, 4 cards presence, 2-4 votes, fame, tension, etc, combat concealedsx4-5 , pursuitx6, blurx3, sideslipx3, tastex3-4, psychex4-5, etc. Equipment 44s and one bowl, most crypt designed can g6 simple and for this deck.3princs, 2of each vamp, one justicar, 2 of support CEL vamp.
Deck 2
Sabbat stick n block
!ventrue , !salubri, salubri, hos
Grinder ish, fortitude, auspex, abbot, bowl, (see, contests deck 1, and is, defensive without aggro combat) uses 4xfreak drive, 6-7 govern, 2 conditioningand a threats 2 daring the dawn, jack, eyes of argus, deflection, eagles sight, sticks, one 44 one sniper rifle, one j's Axe. Fortitude hidden strength, rolling wtp, armor of vitality, soak
Deck 3
Sneaky bleed, setites, using majesty and pre bleeds with true loves face and truth of 1000 lies. Using mummy allies and summoning as well. Simple aggro bleed
Deck 4 & 5
Little fuzzy what I did here, but i feel lawfirm ventrue was one, votes, bleed, etc, and grapple combat Nos was another. Nos had gangrel too, because it included fortitude.
A sixth deck was tzi midrange toolbox, abbots, deep song, changeling, ballooms, 2-3 war ghoul, agg poke, etc.
Seventh was kindred spirits 60 ish cards, or lasombra sneaky bleed with arms of the abyss and entombment.

Basically, sicks to an archetype, vamps designed in g6 for these decks make up 50% or more of crypt. Can win. Has good cards. Aggressive vote, bleed, combat, then stern blockers.
Tremere toolbox got scrapped, wince tzi gave sabbat another face.

The good thing with sticking to a clan is that you get to use 3 disciplines in the deck, which forms a stronger basis to branch out to other clans. What is the value of your weenie starter for someone who does not want to play Tremere?

As for packaging: one could make 5 starters + a vampire pack.

Vampire deck is a good idea