lightbulb Crypt card redesign

02 Sep 2016 22:43 - 03 Sep 2016 04:59 #78116 by Ke.
Replied by Ke. on topic Crypt card redesign

Use the black text box and the white text box layout with a fixed size.


I'm not adverse to a fixed size for the text area — however I think it should be tested and compared before being decided on. I'll see if I can put together some comparisons. IIRC in early testing it performed far worse than dynamic.

Sect, Title, and Group go in the black text box.


I think it's important to keep the sect where it is. It's familiar to current players and it solves a design problem — what to do when the vampire has no text. This applies to the clan also. By including both you ensure there is always content for the black and white areas and as a bonus, including the clan name also helps new players learn the clans. So take this random vampire for example:



This vampire has no text asides from "Camarilla", including the clan name ensures a constant design across all crypt cards.

To give you all some insight into how insane the current, official crypt text templating rules are.


It's important to note the system leverages the card text completely — it does not rewrite it. So the rules you mention still apply when writing card text.

All that then happens is that it can either highlight or extract certain values.

For example here's what it does with Yazid:



It's extracted the +1 bleed and added to to the back box. It's then realised that there's no other text after the colon, so it's replaced the colon with a stop and not bolded the text (bold everything is pointless). Here's it just leveraging the raw text:




Note, I've iconified the group number so it's not so prominent and takes up less space.

I think we can apply a clear rule as to what appears prominent in the black area: Permanent effects that affect game state.

So not traits or keywords, only effects that are active and impact game play. These currently are:

+bleed
+strength
+intercept
+stealth,
+handsize

So Saulot looks like this now:



And here's the Capuchin:



The goal here wasn't throw out all the rules and start from scratch. It was to evolve the current design in a manner that helped new players, did not alienate current players and leveraged the existing artwork. Effectively allowing the design to be used with the current card set without causing too much confusion.

This was similar with library cards; an evolutionary design — not revolutionary (more on library cards later).
Last edit: 03 Sep 2016 04:59 by Ke..
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lech

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Sep 2016 06:59 #78118 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Crypt card redesign

I'm undecided on whether simple +something text should be bold. I understand and kinda agree with the desire to make those abilities more noticeable. However, I also like the idea of having a standard of highlighting text that is a requirement for playing other cards and/or refers to a special rule in the rulebook.


This is easily solved! The Design Team can just create a bunch of cards that require all the things.
Card Name #1
Requires a minion with +1 bleed (or more)
...
Card Name #2
Requires a minion with +1 strength (or more)
...
Card Name #3271
Requires a minion enslaved to a non-anarch, infernal, independent Salubri Antitribu with a title worth at least 1 vote.

And so on.

Everything can now make sense, and no-one could possibly object.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ke.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Sep 2016 08:39 #78119 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Crypt card redesign

And here's the Capuchin:


Clan name in text looks bad.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Sep 2016 08:51 - 03 Sep 2016 08:54 #78120 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Crypt card redesign

This is easily solved! The Design Team can just create a bunch of cards that require all the things.
....
Everything can now make sense, and no-one could possibly object.


On a somewhat more serious note, this is a problem with deciding what goes in bold based on what other cards require now, because it can change.

The "Rough and Tumble" expansion, pencilled in for 2021, might decide that some big vampires are a bit useless, and so hand out an ability usable by vampires with +1 strength. Or built-in aggravated hand damage.

Or you might create a card that requires a sterile vampire (which is mostly an anti-keyword - pretty much every use of it is "non-sterile" that I can think of).

You can also get into fun situations where you create a brand new ability, but haven't yet decided on whether you want it to require anything. In 2019, Bobby the Brujah gets created with a special ability that's never been thought of before. Bold or not bold?
Last edit: 03 Sep 2016 08:54 by jamesatzephyr.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Sep 2016 09:57 - 03 Sep 2016 09:59 #78121 by 666Raziel
Replied by 666Raziel on topic Crypt card redesign

I think it's important to keep the sect where it is. It's familiar to current players and it solves a design problem — what to do when the vampire has no text. This applies to the clan also. By including both you ensure there is always content for the black and white areas and as a bonus, including the clan name also helps new players learn the clans. So take this random vampire for example:



This vampire has no text asides from "Camarilla", including the clan name ensures a constant design across all crypt cards.


There are other way to solve that design problem. As I've said many times, flavor text could be added to vampire in this situation.
As for the location of the sect, until now, it has always been the first information readable on a vampire. So if you want to be familiar with current player, I think you should place it in the black box since it's the first thing player will read.

Note, I've iconified the group number so it's not so prominent and takes up less space.


For me, it's a step back. We are still having deckbuilding information in the same area as gameplay information. And now we don't even have the ease of comprehension we had when it was written fully.

Idea : what if group were written (fully) between the vampire name and it's clan icon ?


I think we can apply a clear rule as to what appears prominent in the black area: Permanent effects that affect game state.

So not traits or keywords, only effects that are active and impact game play. These currently are:

+bleed
+strength
+intercept
+stealth,
+handsize

So Saulot looks like this now:


Don't want to be rude or anything, but for me, your rule is not clear at all... :unsure:
What are permanents effects ? Why is "+X strength" more permanent than "+X strength against Y" ?

Besides, your realization contradict your rule. Why is clan in the black area ? For me, a clan is not more permanent than "Scarce" or even a sect.


Could you please make a try where black box is only for keyword. And everything else goes to the white box ? :kiss:
Last edit: 03 Sep 2016 09:59 by 666Raziel.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Sep 2016 17:37 #78125 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Crypt card redesign
Vampire text is really like a character sheet. I can't think of a clever way to split all the characteristics in two parts only. Title has nothing to do with strength bonus. Strength bonus has nothing to do with bleed bonus. Etc.
So there won't be any clever rule, and all rules will be arbitrary. Perhaps the best way is too keep all the text together.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.117 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum