file ReVamping VTES?

06 Feb 2018 20:27 - 06 Feb 2018 20:29 #85233 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic ReVamping VTES?

My point was that this was what Hunting Grounds should've been doing all along, and that they could also afford to grant some other cool effect. If not even more blood due to clan bonus (i.e. "this vampire gets 1 additional blood from a successful Hunt, and another additional 1 blood if they are Gangrel"), then some other effect like "Untap and gain +1 stealth even if it is not yet needed" or "+1 bleed" or "+1 hand size until end of turn." It seems like there is a lot of design space beyond "get 1 bonus blood" that all the Hunting Grounds currently follow and all those cards you listed basically follow.

I mean, I see you working here. But my perspective is that hunting grounds, while not very interesting design wise, have a pretty decent effect, and are so versatile. They fit in any deck type as long as the required clan is included. Their functionality makes up for any missed opportunity design wise. Hunting grounds provide the blood of hunting without requiring the high cost of the hunt action. And other cards provide the things you suggest above, some of which are locations (although, not hunting grounds).

I don't think Dominate is broken or over-powered, I just think it having the best defense and offense regarding Bleeding is overkill, and that the game would benefit if Bleed was more common in other disciplines and Dominate was the 'tap down' or 'control their minions' discipline.

So dominate is not overpowered, it's just overkill. I really still don't get your point. Is dominate fine as is, or does it need to be fixed?

re: Army of Rats: is a shame that such a cool card is basically written not to be a win condition.

People win with Army of Rats as currently written. All the time. Where did you get the idea that Army of Rats is under-powered?
Last edit: 06 Feb 2018 20:29 by TwoRazorReign.

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06 Feb 2018 20:47 - 06 Feb 2018 20:49 #85235 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic ReVamping VTES?

Admittedly, I have never played VTES

I'm not buying it anymore either. :P

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength
Last edit: 06 Feb 2018 20:49 by GreyB.
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06 Feb 2018 22:11 #85236 by LivesByProxy
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic ReVamping VTES?
Overkill was a poor word choice. I don't think Dominate needs to be 'fixed' so much as I would seriously tweak what it's core strength / mechanics are if there were ever a spiritual successor to VTES, which is the heart of this thread.

Army of Rats isn't under-powered in its current form per se, but it isn't a win condition the same way Parity Shift or Kine Resources Contested is.

@GreyB: I assure you, I am. :side:

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.
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08 Feb 2018 16:52 - 08 Feb 2018 16:53 #85267 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic ReVamping VTES?
Dominate as is happens to be the most versatile discipline in the game because as you say it bleeds and bounces. Because of govern and deflection, everything truly is better with dominate. Why both for one skill? It's what it does. There are no plans to exceed power of either of those cards, ever for dominate. It works. I get your confusion, but trust me that since '94, things have been designed with those cards in mind.

Army of rats is one card in many that decks use still to oust. I have a Gotsdam &! ventrue deck that even includes 2 of them. It's a consistent reoccurring pool damage to just your prey and wall decks and combat walls (animalism is great at both) WANT another reason to block and fight it's prey. It's good. Ditto with fame. And majesty. All got reworded strongly, I wish other cards got this treatment instead of banned.
For example, protect thine own is stupid good, but could have been changed to kill some random 3 or lower cap or an ally. Memories of mortality became STUPID broken when imbued became a thing, but even adding the words "non-imbued" would have made it not as brutal. Now, do we need a way for IC fatties to burn things with a vote? Not necessarily, but that's because fatties are strong again finally. Do we need more help for allies? Universally not exactly, since tunnel runners and nephundi are strong, war ghouls still ate super viable, shamblers are dead hookers still punch and bleed great respectively, and we aren't bad off in general.

Hunting grounds:

You play, you get used to it.

When I was learning to play MTG, I had Searing spear Askari and the sorcery flaming spear. I owned these from boosters before learning to play, and thought the creature played the spell.
The same level word pairing mentality is the only thing that would associate the two, and as stated, once you play even a little, you no longer make that association or get confused at all, as they are completely separate means of blood gain.
Last edit: 08 Feb 2018 16:53 by ReverendRevolver.

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