lightbulb What if we updated these cards?

10 Mar 2023 16:00 - 13 Mar 2023 13:13 #107591 by charmer
Alrighty. Moving on...

Let's improve more cards.

Another elegant way to update underplayed action cards is to give them a free unlock. Case in point, IMHO, all these cards could benefit from having an additional "... and unlock this vampire/minion at the end of the action." , without making them too strong:

Red List , Priority Shift , Anonymous Freight , Kaymakli Barrier , Rave , Jack of Both Sides , Of Noble Blood

Similarly, some equipment could be boosted:

IR Goggles - Electronic equipment. This minion gets an optional maneuver each combat. If the action to equip with the IR Goggles is successful, the acting minion may unlock at the end of the action.

EDIT: I added the "may" clause

Maybe the above change could even be added to Light Intensifying Goggles which deprecated the IR Goggles before ;)
Last edit: 13 Mar 2023 13:13 by charmer.
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12 Mar 2023 09:30 #107594 by Malachy

More proposals:

Epiphany - as I've observed, by now, there are not very many vamps for whom Epiphany is even viable, i.e. when playing the base version in multiples makes more sense than the other way around + playing Legacy... Epiphany being the original merge card, it seems fair to me if it also had the burn option to enable more decks. Not sure if it was deliberate to leave Epiphany as it is when Legacy was introduced in 2016 but by now, it does not appear this little update would shake things up too much.


In general, just adding the burn option or making a master card a trifle appears like a really elegant way to improve certain cards' profiles without breaking VTES rules, flavor, or WoD lore.


I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement, but regarding Epiphany, one should entertain the thought that it can be played by ANY vampire, except advanced and merged. So if you have like an Anarch Convert in play you cannot use Burn Option of Epiphany since there's a ready vampire who can play it.

NC of Hungary

///

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12 Mar 2023 11:50 #107596 by charmer
Are you sure about this? Epihany says "Requires an unmerged base vampire." While the rules do not seem to be explicit about this, it appears that, for example, Anarch Convert cannot be considered to be an unmerged base vampire because it does not have an advancement card...

In any case, speaking of Anarch Convert - it is one of the most efficient ways to convert vampires. We could improve the original conversion card as follows:

Go Anarch - Burn option. +1 stealth action. Requires a ready non-titled, non-Anarch vampire. Put this card on the acting vampire and unlock this vampire. This vampire is considered Anarch. If this vampire changes sects, burn this card.


More cards could be updated with the burn option while remaining balanced, for example: Rebirth , Praetorian Backer

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12 Mar 2023 15:18 #107598 by Kilrauko

Are you sure about this? Epihany says "Requires an unmerged base vampire." While the rules do not seem to be explicit about this, it appears that, for example, Anarch Convert cannot be considered to be an unmerged base vampire because it does not have an advancement card...

Name: Epiphany
[SoC:R]
Cardtype: Action
+2 stealth action. Requires an unmerged base vampire.
Unlock this acting vampire and search your crypt, uncontrolled region, or ash heap for his or her advanced version to move to him or her. Shuffle your crypt afterward.
Artist: Leif Jones

Any vampire that is not 1) advanced vampire or 2) merged vampire is unmerged base vampire. Based purely on them not having been merged and them not being advanced vampire. Therefore any such vampire can take Epiphany action, unlock, perform the search and per rules of failing a search (for example Magic of the Smith not finding the Helicopter still in your deck that would oust you if found) not find the advanced version that does not exist.

As burn option checks for ability to meet the requirements, only time to burn the hypothetical future version of Epiphany would be when you have no vampires or have merged/advanced vampires out. Either way it already has free unlock and +2 stealth so it easily cycles from the hand as is.

The Moment ruling for players ability to fail to find things is ended is when Epiphany has to have something to search and the burn option becomes more valid. Not likely to happen soon as the can of worms where people are forced to remember and keep track of their equipments in the library and the following judge calls from mistakes in such memory maintain the status quo. We're talking about ongoing player and design intent where "may" is agressively being added to existing card texts as people keep forgetting mandatory effects and thus disrupting play. See www.blackchantry.com/2023/03/06/87-cards-added-to-vampire-the-eternal-struggle-legacy-singles/ Sargon change as example. Current text for that card is
Name: Sargon
[BL:U2, POD:DTC]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Baali
Group: 2
Capacity: 5
Discipline: cel dai obf pre
Independent: After Sargon performs a successful action, you gain the Edge. Infernal. +1 strength.
Artist: Christopher Shy

I highlight this as it will hopefully help you align your design intent with the official one, increasing the likelihood of success. For example your IR goggles suggestion would more likely to pass if it used "may unlock" version. Now if the wording goes through, and the player forgets it, there is need to figure out and possibly reverse game state. Pure poison for tournament players, not for in game but out of game reasons.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
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13 Mar 2023 13:12 #107606 by charmer
Okay then, if any unmerged, non-advanced vampire is considered "unmerged base" then the erratum could include the updated requirement clause as well: Requires an unmerged base vampire for whom an advanced version exists. While it is true that cycling the card by playing it without intent to find is fairly safe, it can still be intercepted to throw a monkey wrench into someone's plans, similarly how hunt actions are sometimes caught... IMHO, Epiphany and Legacy should be on the equal footing as each supports different decks - thus, adding the burn option still has my vote :) I'd fully expect that no card would get an erratum I proposed here without also getting a reprint as we saw before with other cards.

(Oddly enough, MotS rulings or the rulebook itself do not seem to explicitly state that a player can choose not to find a thing they are searching for - so is it just implied?)

As for the "may" clauses, I fully agree with that, Magic has had this templated a long time ago but templating in VTES is a lingering issue... I took the wording for the updated goggles from Baseball Bat but making the unlock optional makes more sense for reasons you stated.

I'll go back and update the posts for these two cards, thank you.

In the meantime, let's fix more cards, shall we?

Keep it Simple - [blood cost reduced to 0] Reduce a bleed against you by X+1 where X represents the amount of stealth the acting minion has when this card is played.

My understanding is the design of this card was very cautious at the time, but as the historical records shows, this effect never really found a niche to work even moderately well...

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13 Mar 2023 14:02 #107607 by Kilrauko

Okay then, if any unmerged, non-advanced vampire is considered "unmerged base" then the erratum could include the updated requirement clause as well: Requires an unmerged base vampire for whom an advanced version exists. While it is true that cycling the card by playing it without intent to find is fairly safe, it can still be intercepted to throw a monkey wrench into someone's plans, similarly how hunt actions are sometimes caught... IMHO, Epiphany and Legacy should be on the equal footing as each supports different decks - thus, adding the burn option still has my vote :) I'd fully expect that no card would get an erratum I proposed here without also getting a reprint as we saw before with other cards.

(Oddly enough, MotS rulings or the rulebook itself do not seem to explicitly state that a player can choose not to find a thing they are searching for - so is it just implied?) ...


No, it's quote clearly defined in the rules under wording templates www.vekn.net/rulebook/3-playing-the-game

“Search”: Some effects have you search your library or crypt. You do not have to announce the card you are searching, and searching can result in not finding the card. If you search your library or crypt, you must shuffle it afterwards."


It has origins in couple decades ago discussions groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/g1aNkwhLOHI/m/7ru6wAWBgZIJ and few replies below groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/g1aNkwhLOHI/m/jQSA2E5S3NoJ thankfully it was included to the rulebook and when the rulebook was revised with V5 by BCP still maintained there (unlike some other things that should have stayed...)

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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