file Is it time to unban Seeds of Corruption?

23 Mar 2023 10:06 #107718 by Kilrauko


The way V5 and legacy separation for VTES tournaments is being pushed we'll likely soon see much larger ban lists.

Not at all. The default format will still be the standard, and the ban list is not going to evolve because of the V5.


Am I supposed to read this as "The default format will still be the standard, and the ban list is not going to evolve because of the V5.".

Or am I supposed to assume BCP has given up plans to ban previous 12 versions of Govern the Unaligned alone for the future V5 format meaning the actual "massive ban lists" of "no cards that are not in V5" and "no versions of V5 cards that have been printed outside of V5" is no longer a thing and it's just the first. Because it will be a doozy due to fact even couple cards shoot it past the current one. Even if there's attempt to mask that behind one sentence instead listing all the cards.

In the vein of making game more presentable and current product compatible, I'm also assuming BCP and Paradox are not really fine with some of the current legacy cards, so they'll receive the Terrorists treatment before being included in some future V5 product or PoD. Again necessating a increase to the existing banlist. Or they'll be left ignored and eventually start to claim prices of hundreds thus eventually making news how "Mind Rape, a VTES card sells for 1000 dollars on ebay auction, now why do these players like to Mind Rape so much?"

With that logic, I'm assuming it's the former, as anything else deals with the future and as we all know, that beast is malleable. But please no promises of "Not at all.", I'd rather not be let down by them.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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23 Mar 2023 10:28 #107719 by emime


Seriously, no reason to go on tangents (or to remind me what the ban list is for... LOL).

I am not particularly attached to Seeds of Corruption nor I necessarily want it back, and I liked ReverendRevolver's thoughtful explanations.

I just asked because - as you may remember - Ankha had said explicitly in the past that the card was banned "until the new rulebook is out, at least", so now that it is out, wanted to check whether there had been or there could be any new reflections.

Emiliano "Sans Terre" - Wandering Player - Prince of Brussels
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23 Mar 2023 10:49 - 23 Mar 2023 10:54 #107720 by Ankha


The way V5 and legacy separation for VTES tournaments is being pushed we'll likely soon see much larger ban lists.

Not at all. The default format will still be the standard, and the ban list is not going to evolve because of the V5.


Am I supposed to read this as "The default format will still be the standard, and the ban list is not going to evolve because of the V5.".

It's what is written, yes.

Or am I supposed to assume BCP has given up plans to ban previous 12 versions of Govern the Unaligned alone for the future V5 format meaning the actual "massive ban lists" of "no cards that are not in V5" and "no versions of V5 cards that have been printed outside of V5" is no longer a thing and it's just the first.

The first what?
There has never been any plan to ban previous prints. If you're disclosing info about the V5 format, I suggest you read again what was written.

Because it will be a doozy due to fact even couple cards shoot it past the current one. Even if there's attempt to mask that behind one sentence instead listing all the cards.

In the vein of making game more presentable and current product compatible, I'm also assuming BCP and Paradox are not really fine with some of the current legacy cards, so they'll receive the Terrorists treatment before being included in some future V5 product or PoD. Again necessating a increase to the existing banlist. Or they'll be left ignored and eventually start to claim prices of hundreds thus eventually making news how "Mind Rape, a VTES card sells for 1000 dollars on ebay auction, now why do these players like to Mind Rape so much?"

With that logic, I'm assuming it's the former, as anything else deals with the future and as we all know, that beast is malleable. But please no promises of "Not at all.", I'd rather not be let down by them.

It looks like a random rant based on random assumptions.

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Last edit: 23 Mar 2023 10:54 by Ankha.
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23 Mar 2023 17:10 #107723 by Kilrauko


The way V5 and legacy separation for VTES tournaments is being pushed we'll likely soon see much larger ban lists.

Not at all. The default format will still be the standard, and the ban list is not going to evolve because of the V5.


Am I supposed to read this as "The default format will still be the standard, and the ban list is not going to evolve because of the V5.".

It's what is written, yes.

Or am I supposed to assume BCP has given up plans to ban previous 12 versions of Govern the Unaligned alone for the future V5 format meaning the actual "massive ban lists" of "no cards that are not in V5" and "no versions of V5 cards that have been printed outside of V5" is no longer a thing and it's just the first.

The first what?
There has never been any plan to ban previous prints. If you're disclosing info about the V5 format, I suggest you read again what was written.

Because it will be a doozy due to fact even couple cards shoot it past the current one. Even if there's attempt to mask that behind one sentence instead listing all the cards.

In the vein of making game more presentable and current product compatible, I'm also assuming BCP and Paradox are not really fine with some of the current legacy cards, so they'll receive the Terrorists treatment before being included in some future V5 product or PoD. Again necessating a increase to the existing banlist. Or they'll be left ignored and eventually start to claim prices of hundreds thus eventually making news how "Mind Rape, a VTES card sells for 1000 dollars on ebay auction, now why do these players like to Mind Rape so much?"

With that logic, I'm assuming it's the former, as anything else deals with the future and as we all know, that beast is malleable. But please no promises of "Not at all.", I'd rather not be let down by them.

It looks like a random rant based on random assumptions.


I'm just interpreting how the current Tournament rules, particulary 7.9 were and are worded. To Disclose something implies something being hidden in the first place, 7.9 seems to be quite public to me, I'll use forums confidental tag just in case;

This message contains confidential information


Now as I don't recall during White Wolf time there being mention of BCP printed cards, there has been deliberate addition to it. This is not a new addition.

It would be logical to limit V5 in same vein, which raises the above two roads. To have V5 format means the line has to be put somewhere, it has to be drawn and it means banning cardboard cards that are outside that line. By pure statistics, pre-V5 has decades worth of cards, V5 has years. More cards out then in. Larger ban lists, one for standard constructed unchanged at start, one massive for V5.

Now juggling two formats and balance is hard, hence there might be hypothetical future cards that are fine in the V5 format but require ban for standard constructed. Or there might be no such cards, but PoD future prints will eventually run to those "Terrorists" cards that require rework. Aka banlist grows.

If nothing is unbanned, the future is bigger banlists. Despite "not at all". I'm not saying that as a bad thing btw. People will play with what they want, always. But I'm sceptical on the "Not at all." due to above reasons all pointing the other direction.

The question was aimed whether or not BCP has made decision on the lines position and was that "Not at all" a indication for one direction or another. Or is the future still malleable and unknown as ever.

For the "rant", well, emime did put a link to the past, at least the words were more future proof back then. Or perhaps I'm just reading too much into things. It tends to happen when things are not disclosed and conclusions need to be drawn from the design intent and past.

But for the promises made BCP,

And it might be random rant, I tend to do that. Please don't take it personally, I'm after the concepts here.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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24 Mar 2023 07:13 #107725 by Lönkka
You might want to look at the reasons behind the new V5 format (one that probably won't even see much, if any, use) before going full folio hat... ;)

No reason to try to see conspiracy where there ain't one!

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