file New set in 2012

07 Dec 2011 19:38 #17482 by talonz
Replied by talonz on topic Re: New set in 2012

wasn't LSJ pretty much a fan who was brought on board to design for White Wolf?


The difference is just that...he was offically brought on by the company producing it. Here we have effectively a bunch of fans getting together and saying 'lets make new cards' which any hack in their basement can do, and then foist them off (electronically!) on the tournament community via their association with the vekn. Unliscended, unprinted, not widely available to the gamestore public, forcing people to play with fully sleeved decks, etc.

Apologies to those involved, but this is utter crap.

I dont want cheapass pdf cards polluting my game.

if you play without sleeves, someone with a keen eye can already tell a lot about your deck's composition. Jyhad and 3rd Edition cards stick out like a sore thumb. carefully studying the colors and clarity of the card backs can give information about which expansion set it was printed in.


I dont play with jyhad cards, and 3rd edition cards if turned the right way are not identifiable at a glance. Anyone staring closely at every players hand and library every turn should be called for stalling. Or just committed, because that is crazy.

And you ignore a key point....your counterpoint only matters for those cards visible. IE: portions of a players hand and the top card of his library. (Asheap being redundant here, being already revealed).

Having jyahd/third/whatever cards in the rest of your deck are not revealed. But not having these new pdf cards *anywhere* in your deck *are* revealed simply by not playing with sleeved decks. That is simply wrong on principle that any portion of my library is given away because of an out of game consideration.

IIRC, you cant actually show cards out of play to your opponents (unless required to by card/gameplay), and this pdf card idea requires you to do that or spend time and money sleeving your deck.

Well the point of Peter is that he PREFERS playing without sleeves for other reasons than the cost. I get this point but I feel that it doesn't really matter in the greather scheme of things.


Johannes, I think there is one peson here who plays with sleeves. At the norwes qualifier I attend nearly every year, that ratio rises only slightly, iirc. I dont like sleeves for many reasons. Shuffling, slideoff, topover, sticking together, time, space in deckboxes/closet storage, weight, money, feel, look, etc. I actually dislike seeing people playing with sleeves on their cards, especially the silly artsy ones, as even that cheapens the game for me. I *want* to see 'Vampire' on green or brown marble cardbacks every time I play damnit.

I would gladly pay the cost of new, actually compatiable print cards over sleeves any day. New cards are great. This implementation of them are bad. Make the pdf if you want, even distribute it. But dont allow them to be tournament legal. Nothing that is not an actual vtes card should be legal in that environment.


Think about it. This is a very slippery slope we are being taken to here. Where does it stop? How long before the next set of pdf cards? Or the one after that? At what point does vampire become unrecognizable due to a glut of pdf cards invented by joe blow the vtes fan?

Do not let this happen vekn, please.

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07 Dec 2011 19:44 #17483 by johannes
Replied by johannes on topic Re: New set in 2012
How is a free download not widely available?
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kushiel, Vlad

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07 Dec 2011 19:46 #17484 by talonz
Replied by talonz on topic Re: New set in 2012

How is a free download not widely available?


Where? Here?

How many people do you think traffic this site?

How many people traffic gamestores, online or otherwise?

Do you not think the gap of vtes players between either group is vast?

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07 Dec 2011 19:53 #17487 by johannes
Replied by johannes on topic Re: New set in 2012

How is a free download not widely available?


Where? Here?

How many people do you think traffic this site?

How many people traffic gamestores, online or otherwise?

Do you not think the gap of vtes players between either group is vast?


About a 1000 people REGISTERED on this site. The rest will learn quickly by mouth to mouth.
I think much more people are informing themselves about VTES online than in game stores. An out of print game is dead to game stores, except maybe a few.

Yes the gap is vast but in the other direction.

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07 Dec 2011 19:58 - 07 Dec 2011 19:59 #17488 by Jeff Kuta
Replied by Jeff Kuta on topic Re: New set in 2012

6.1.1. Set Restrictions

The tournament organizer may limit players to the use of one or more card sets. For example, the tournament organizer may require players to restrict their decks to cards from the Dark Sovereigns and Final Nights card sets. The tournament organizer must advertise any card set restrictions prior to the event. All cards will be required to use the most recent card texts even if the revised card text appears in a set not allowed in the current event. Example: In an event restricted to the use of the V:TES base set, the Master card "Misdirection" would still tap only one minion.

Note: Sanctioned tournaments conducted with card set restrictions will not have their results included in the V:EKN player ratings.



If the availability of the new VEKN issued cards is problem, local Princes and tournament organizers can just restrict the sets allowed to WotC/WW printed cards. The VEKN issued ones will be considered some type of different set. Problem solved.

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Last edit: 07 Dec 2011 19:59 by Jeff Kuta.

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07 Dec 2011 20:34 - 07 Dec 2011 20:36 #17494 by talonz
Replied by talonz on topic Re: New set in 2012
Johness, you are kidding yourself if you think those numbers mean anything. Take my local riders forum for instance. Nearly 500 registered. Maybe a dozen are regular posters. Now with only twice that number, you think this site is reaching the global playerbase??? You are in denial.

I doubt that anymore than 3 of my players (including myself) even know this site exists. But all my players attend or did attend the local gamestore were we play.

Jeff I know that tourney option. I am a former prince (and basically still am in all but offical vekn listing). I guarantee you it wont stop players from showing up for an event and saying 'wtf...' when they first see a pdf card in play. That, I dont want happening.


Now having said all this, let me propose a possible solution to all my own problems. Because I most certainly would love actual new cards and want this game to continue and even thrive.

First make VEKN a not for profit organization, or registered club or what have you.
Next, take dues, donations or contributions.
Third, go print the cards! Then distribute as promo cards, at no cost to princes, to distribute amongst their player groups.

If the cards are given away, they cant stop us.

Instead of 'faceless' dues or donations, we could use www.kickstarter.com/ or the like for each set. Nothing gets printed until our 'club' can cover the cost.

Any holes in that?
Last edit: 07 Dec 2011 20:36 by talonz.

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