New set in 2012

Ohlmann wrote:

Dorrinal wrote:

Of course they are proxies - paper printouts that represent particular cards. And the only reason to differentiate them from proxies from older sets is some fantasy about the game being published again.

Of course they are not proxies, since as you say they don't represent any existing card.

It's word twisting in order to pass particular idea. They are not the same as regular proxies.

Interesting use of the qualifier - "regular proxies." You can't deny the nature of these PDF-based cards. What else do you call a slip of paper with card text, put in sleeve in front of another V:TES card? That's right, it's a proxy, even if it is a proxy for a card that doesn't exist.

Now let's say that by some miracle of doublethink, that you are right. It has no bearing on XZealot's question, because one can create proxies for previous sets by the same method. Therefore the proxy/not-proxy distinction is completely immaterial.

Dorrinal wrote:

Now let's say that by some miracle of doublethink, that you are right. It has no bearing on XZealot's question, because one can create proxies for previous sets by the same method. Therefore the proxy/not-proxy distinction is completely immaterial.

You're the one engaging in some serious doublethink and, worse yet, syntactical minutiae wrangling.

A proxy is a SUBSTITUTE for the REAL THING.
Cards that were published in physical format by WotC/WW/CCP are the REAL THING.
Cards that will be published by the VEKN in electronic format and subsequently printed out by players are the REAL THING.

PROXIES, that is, cards which are not either of the above REAL THINGS, are illegal.

Sure, it is true that by the definition of the latter, which is very clear from all of the things Johannes and Pascal have said up until this point, means that most everything that qualifies as a REAL THING VEKN CARD might take on a similar physical appearance to a PROXY of a REAL THING WOTC/WW/CCP CARD, but there is a difference between the two.

Common sense is a wonderful thing sometimes.

Jeff wrote:

Dorrinal wrote:

Now let's say that by some miracle of doublethink, that you are right. It has no bearing on XZealot's question, because one can create proxies for previous sets by the same method. Therefore the proxy/not-proxy distinction is completely immaterial.

You're the one engaging in some serious doublethink and, worse yet, syntactical minutiae wrangling.

A proxy is a SUBSTITUTE for the REAL THING.
Cards that were published in physical format by WotC/WW/CCP are the REAL THING.
Cards that will be published by the VEKN in electronic format and subsequently printed out by players are the REAL THING.

PROXIES, that is, cards which are not either of the above REAL THINGS, are illegal.

Sure, it is true that by the definition of the latter, which is very clear from all of the things Johannes and Pascal have said up until this point, means that most everything that qualifies as a REAL THING VEKN CARD might take on a similar physical appearance to a PROXY of a REAL THING WOTC/WW/CCP CARD, but there is a difference between the two.

Common sense is a wonderful thing sometimes.

One card is used to represent another card with the help of a slip of paper - in other words, a proxy. You can't change the definition of the word, but you can get hung up on the fact that the original card hasn't been printed.

Aside: Clearly this isn't an issue that is easily resolved by application of common sense. So kindly shove the smart ass comment - I won't stand for it.

You can't change the definition of the word

Indeed you cannot, so stop doing it.

Let's say you wanted to proxy a card like Villein. You just print out the card text, and slide it in sleeves in front of some random cards. Do you need to own a copy of Villein for each proxy? Of course not. You could proxy an entire deck this way without owning any of the actual cards. The cards in your deck, with the printouts, represent the idea of Villein -- not physical copies of Villein, because you don't need to own physical copies to make proxies.

Now this hypothetical PDF set is released by VEKN and you want to put one of the new cards in your deck. You print out the card text, slide it in the sleeves in front of some random cards, and add them to your deck. These cards represent the idea of the new card, just like the cards in the Villein example.

Summary:

• A proxy is a card that represents another card.
• One does not need to own any copies of a card to create a proxy for it, therefore
• A proxy is a card that represents the idea of a card, not a physical card, therefore
• It doesn't matter if there are no physical copies of a card.

Dorrinal wrote:

Let's say you wanted to proxy a card like Villein. You just print out the card text, and slide it in sleeves in front of some random cards. Do you need to own a copy of Villein for each proxy? Of course not. You could proxy an entire deck this way without owning any of the actual cards. The cards in your deck, with the printouts, represent the idea of Villein -- not physical copies of Villein, because you don't need to own physical copies to make proxies.

Now this hypothetical PDF set is released by VEKN and you want to put one of the new cards in your deck. You print out the card text, slide it in the sleeves in front of some random cards, and add them to your deck. These cards represent the idea of the new card, just like the cards in the Villein example.

Summary:

• A proxy is a card that represents another card.
• One does not need to own any copies of a card to create a proxy for it, therefore
• A proxy is a card that represents the idea of a card, not a physical card, therefore
• It doesn't matter if there are no physical copies of a card.

That is wrong. A proxy, in (trading) card games, is a representaion of a physical, existing card.

Btw, what is your problem with the "not so hypothetical" VEKN set?