file Babble +Wakes

08 Oct 2011 08:02 #11656 by Xaddam
Replied by Xaddam on topic Re: Babble +Wakes
I'm a bit curious how to understand this part of the card text of wakes: "This reacting vampire can play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the current action is concluded". My logic understands that as: if I play Babble "as though untapped" I should be able to play it at superior, no?

Adam Esbjörnsson,
Prince of Örebro

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08 Oct 2011 12:07 - 08 Oct 2011 12:09 #11663 by technobabble66
Replied by technobabble66 on topic Re: Babble +Wakes
Yeah, that's kinda why i asked the question. I vaguely remember the clarification that u do actually have to be untapped for this sort of card text, but the bit "as though untapped" does kinda seem to address this. Maybe it should read something like:
"as though untapped, but you're not really untapped, so you can't play stuff that requires you to actually tap" ... huh?!?!!

I think maybe it has to do with the text of Babble that says "Tap this vampire..."
ie: you can play the card, but because you can't actually tap the minion (because it's already tapped) therefore you can't complete the text/reaction, & hence can't play it in the first place...
Sorta make sense i suppose when its put like that ... ;-/
Last edit: 08 Oct 2011 12:09 by technobabble66.

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08 Oct 2011 15:23 #11667 by Pascal Bertrand
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: Babble +Wakes
As acbishop and I wrote earlier (and as it is written in the ruling I liked), "tap X to do Y" requires X to be untapped. I didn't say "able to play cards as if untapped", but "untapped". In "tap X to do Y" , "tap" is the cost you have to pay to get Y done.
Remember that this is not the same as "Tap X. Do Y", where "tap" isn't a cost (because it's not using the "tap X to do Y")

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09 Oct 2011 11:35 #11688 by Xaddam
Replied by Xaddam on topic Re: Babble +Wakes
I see. I would have thought that the minion be recognized as untapped for the duration of playing Babble (that is; it's fictitiously untapped before playing it and then fictitiously tap). A bit like how Mata Hari's special works.

If cards recognize the difference between their imposed states and their actual states won't that cause problems for other rules? First thing that comes to mind is location equipments (ankara citadel, ruins of villers abbey, etc, etc), they should be able to be destroyed by Anarch Troublemaker it seems to me then. If not, then in what cases does the actual state overrule the imposed state?

Adam Esbjörnsson,
Prince of Örebro

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09 Oct 2011 19:10 #11720 by Pascal Bertrand
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: Babble +Wakes
With a Wake / On the Qui Vive / ..., the minion's considered untapped for playing cards and declaring block attempts. They're not considered untapped for paying costs.

"Locquipments" (equipments that become locations while in play) are locations when in play (an only locations) and are equipments while not in play (and only equipments). There's been a discussion on that matter a few weeks ago: vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/10624-two-qs#10676

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09 Oct 2011 19:22 #11721 by Xaddam
Replied by Xaddam on topic Re: Babble +Wakes

With a Wake / On the Qui Vive / ..., the minion's considered untapped for playing cards and declaring block attempts. They're not considered untapped for paying costs.


Ok, I see. Thanks, now I understand!

Sorry for being such a pain. :)

Adam Esbjörnsson,
Prince of Örebro

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