file Dragons Breath vs. Majesty

13 Oct 2011 08:06 #11911 by CryWolf
Samson (acting) is in combat with Sabrina.

Samson: Concealed Weapon/Saturday Night Special. No more pre-range.
Sabrina: No pre-range.
Samson: Maneuver long with gun.
Sabrina: No maneuver.
Samson: 1R with gun.
Sabrina: Wave (Sabrina has a Majesty in hand, but decides not to play it.)
Samson: Modify with Dragon's Breath Rounds.

Should Samson have used DBR before Sabrina chose her strike, or is this play valid?


Relevant texts:

Dragon's Breath Rounds
Ammo.
Only usable before resolution of a gun's strike. This gun inflicts +2 aggravated damage each strike for the remainder of this combat. Burn the gun after strike resolution. No more than one ammo card can be used on a gun each combat.

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13 Oct 2011 09:11 #11914 by Juggernaut1981
The gun's strike has NOT been resolved until both minions have chosen their strikes AND both minions have declined to modify their strikes.

So DBR is legal after the declaration of the strike but before resolution of the strike (in a similar window to modying with Wolf Claws).

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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13 Oct 2011 09:24 - 13 Oct 2011 09:40 #11916 by Pascal Bertrand

Samson (acting) is in combat with Sabrina.

Samson: Concealed Weapon/Saturday Night Special. No more pre-range.
Sabrina: No pre-range.
Samson: Maneuver long with gun.
Sabrina: No maneuver.
Samson: 1R with gun.
Sabrina: Wave (Sabrina has a Majesty in hand, but decides not to play it.)
Samson: Modify with Dragon's Breath Rounds.

Should Samson have used DBR before Sabrina chose her strike, or is this play valid?

Not only is it a valid play, but it is also the only possible play of the ammo card. [LSJ 20090323] (DBR isn't plyable before the opponent's strike is declared). This is due to the cardtext: "only usable before" .

On the other side, Wolf Claws doesn't have such a cardtext.
Wolf Claws thus is playable before range is determined, during the determine range step, when choosing strikes, after strikes are chosen and before they are resolved (and any of these would affect the handstrike).
You can play it during strike resolution, but it won't retroactively change the hand damage to aggravated [LSJ 19951005]



Wolf Claws
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Protean
[pro] For the remainder of the round, this vampire's hand damage is aggravated.
[PRO] Press.
Last edit: 13 Oct 2011 09:40 by Pascal Bertrand.
The following user(s) said Thank You: CryWolf

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13 Oct 2011 09:32 - 13 Oct 2011 09:34 #11917 by Amenophobis
The wording is not very intuitive.
From a logic viewpoint, "only usable before X" meanst that you can use it anytime before X, but not after X.
Last edit: 13 Oct 2011 09:34 by Amenophobis.

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13 Oct 2011 09:35 #11918 by Juggernaut1981
Pascal,
To be honest, I can't see a good reason why you should not be able to play DBR at the same time you declare the strike since that point is also "Before Strike Resolution" but is simultaneous to your Strike Declaration.

Is this a quirk of Impulse and Strike Declaration??

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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13 Oct 2011 09:41 - 13 Oct 2011 09:42 #11920 by Pascal Bertrand
I fixed the link above.

No. It is only usable before resolution of a gun's strike. As in "immediately before".


See also: Immortal Grapple isn't played in the "before range" step, even though we are, by default, at close range in this step.
Last edit: 13 Oct 2011 09:42 by Pascal Bertrand.

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